How to Audit Your Digital Marketer – with Leo Ebbert

[00:00:57]
Arlen: Welcome to the e-Commerce Marketing Podcast everyone. My name is Arlen Robinson. I am your host, and today we have a very special guest, Leo Ebbert who is the founder and president of Exact Click Digital, a boutique agency specializing in paid ads management. He began his career as a Certified Public Accountant at Deloitte in Phoenix AZ. In 2007 he founded Exact Click Digital in his hometown of Knoxville, TN. Since founding Exact Click Digital, Leo and his team have helped dozens of brands drive over 1,000,000 conversions through paid advertising. Welcome to the podcast, Leo.

[00:01:37]
Leo:  Thanks, Arlen. Excited to be here and chat about e.

[00:01:41]
Arlen: Yes, definitely. I’m really excited to, to talk to you. You know, there’s of course a plethora of topics that we could have talked about. You kind of sent over a list, and one of the things that kind of stuck out to me, and, and that’s gonna be the topic of our conversation today, is how to audit your digital marketer.

[00:01:56]
Arlen: You know, before we started recording, we were talking about, and I was in mentioning that these days there’s a lot more e-commerce businesses that are going the route of, you know, not doing their digital marketing in-house. They’re outsourcing it, they’re working with agencies such as yours or freelancers and you know, Doing that, you definitely need to have an audit type of process in place in order to make sure, you know, you’re getting your money’s worth and, you know, you’re keeping your, these outsourced people on, on their toes.

[00:02:23]
Arlen: So, uh, yeah, I think is really timely to be talking about this today. And so that’s kind of where we’re gonna be kind of diving deep into. But before we do get into all of all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and you know, specifically how you did get into what you’re 

[00:02:35]
Leo: doing today.

[00:02:36]
Leo: Yeah. So, yeah, like you said, my bio, I started in accounting. To a big four firm in Phoenix, Deloitte. I figured out pretty early on that was not my career path, you know, it just wasn’t, for whatever reason, it just did not really inspire me or make me want to, you know, get up in the morning, go to work. So I kind of, I bounced around a little bit.

[00:02:51]
Leo: I, I, I experimented in working with some other types of businesses, you know, doing some consulting. And then one day, this is back in, I think oh 8, 0 7, 0 8, I, I had this business magazine. There was this article in there and a guy sitting poolside in Cyprus and he said, I generate leads online and I sell them to businesses.

[00:03:11]
Leo: And I thought, man, that sounds like a great idea. This is an up and coming industry. If he can do it instead poolside in Cyprus, maybe I can do it here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Right. . 

[00:03:19]
Arlen: Right, right, right. For sure. 

[00:03:21]
Leo: So started scouring forums. I started, you know, asking people questions. I paid people to teach me.

[00:03:27]
Leo: Kind of, you know, bootstrapping this thing from the get go and convinced a couple of friends early on, people that had started businesses and they were trying to market. I said, Hey, I’ll do it cheap. I’m, I’m cheap, and I’ll work my butt off to get results for you. So gimme a shot. And that’s how I started this agency way back in la.

[00:03:42]
Leo: I like to tell people I did this before. It was cool, but you guys did it way before it was cool. Right? You’ve been doing this for 22 years. But yeah. You know, I’ve been at it for a long time. That’s how I got into it. That’s good. Good stuff. 

[00:03:53]
Arlen: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. An interesting transition that you made.

[00:03:57]
Arlen: You know, you being a kind of a numbers guy and then getting into the marketing agency here, the marketing field, and. Starting your own agency, a lot of times you don’t often see that. Well, you know, it, it’s, it’s good that you do have that background as far as having the numbers being a certified public accountant.

[00:04:11]
Arlen: So I, we could imagine that, you know, you, you gotta handle, handle on your firm’s numbers for sure. And you know, that’s a good 

[00:04:17]
Leo: thing, right? Right, right. And it’s, yeah, it does take a, a unique blend. You gotta be a numbers guy. You gotta understand how to analyze data and make the best choices. But you have to pair that with the creative angle, right?

[00:04:27]
Leo: You can’t just be numbers driven with ads. You’ve gotta think from a consumer perspective, Write ads in a way that’s gonna get good results and what kind of images and videos are gonna do the trick, right? So yeah, it does take a unique blend. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 

[00:04:41]
Arlen: Well, that’s, that’s awesome. But, you know, I think kind of where I wanna start with the, our conversation today is really, uh, you know, whenever you’re engaging.

[00:04:49]
Arlen: Someone to do work for you, services for you. You, I think you, you have to know a little bit about what it is. You’re gonna have that person do. Becau, you know, for a number of things. You know, for number one, you gotta know, you know, type of results that you expect because otherwise, you know, you can easily take advantage of.

[00:05:06]
Arlen: And so you have to really get that foundation. And so what I wanted to know as far as digital marketing’s concerned, you know, really what fundamental. Do you need to know yourself, you know, to be able to really audit your digital marketers and, and find out really what, if they’re 

[00:05:19]
Leo: doing the right thing.

[00:05:20]
Leo: Yeah. Well, yeah. We talk about the, there’s the term or the acronym KPIs, right? Key performance indicators. Mm-hmm. . And you need to have what, what matters most to e-commerce. Brands is typically gonna be roaz, you know, your return on spend. Yeah. For every dollar I give Facebook or Google, how many dollars in sales am I gonna get back?

[00:05:37]
Leo: That’s, you know, the simplest and most basic KPI that you would definitely wanna have a handle on. But even before that, the, you know, the question is, you know, what, what should your roaz be? And that’s where a lot of brands I think can get tripped up. They get it in their heads that I need to have a row.

[00:05:52]
Leo: This, and it may not be based on reality or what their numbers really indicate. I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of brands who come and work with us and they’ll say, I need a row as of this. And they’ll say, okay, why do we need that row As, and you know, and when we get to the bottom, we start digging and the answer is they’re not really sure.

[00:06:06]
Leo: They just maybe heard from somebody or they did kind of a back of the envelope calculation and figured, well, my margins are this and so I must be, I must need to get that in order to be successful. Yeah. And that’s where someone like, like with my background, the accounting background, I can really add.

[00:06:20]
Leo: The clients because we can do a deep dive on for one, what’s your lifetime value of a customer? If you figure out your lifetime value, you know, you bring in a customer today, what’s that customer gonna yield you over the next four or five years? And if you have that information, whereas your competitor does not have that information, you are gonna be, you will have a huge leg up, a huge competitive advantage when it comes to advertising, cuz you’ll know what your roaz really needs to be now.

[00:06:44]
Leo: And I’ve seen a lot of times where a client will come. and their roas, they might be shooting higher than they need to shoot and, and then when they do that, they sacrifice scale or they might be shooting lower than they need to shoot. And when they do that, they’re losing money. Right. So neither one is really good.

[00:06:59]
Leo: So the key is figuring out what your RO as should be and then optimizing every campaign around that. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:07:05]
Arlen: yeah. I like that. That makes a lot of sense because. Yeah. Otherwise, if you don’t know what that really is, you know, return on ad spin, then you know, you, you could be making a little bit, you know, they could be saying, yeah, okay, you know, we’re, you’re getting a little bit of profit from this.

[00:07:18]
Arlen: We, we see the sales coming through from this particular ad. And, you know, depending on, you know, that the agency or the, you know, person you’re dealing with, you know, they could be kind of spinning it to make it seem like, you know, you’re really , you know, it’s really a good thing and you’re really. Sense that you’re really, you know, making more than you’re spending and it’s really a profitable endeavor or campaign for you.

[00:07:37]
Arlen: So, yeah, I, I totally understand how, yeah, you really have to start with that, you know, and establish those numbers. I think even before, you know, even of course, before launching a campaign, what do you. What are you expecting to get? What would be, yeah, what are your end goals? What are you looking for now?

[00:07:52]
Arlen: You know, speaking of kind of end goals and, and tracking, you know, digital marketing is a pretty broad area. There’s a lot of different things you can do. A lot of types of ads, different campaigns, different things that you can, you know, do to, you know, drive sales, drive traffic to your, to your e-commerce site.

[00:08:09]
Arlen: What would you say are some of the data points, you know, that you should be tracking? Other data points you should be tracking in order to perform, you know, a success. Audit of, you know, whoever’s doing the work for you and, you know, are there any specific tools that you recommend that somebody should use to capture this particular data?

[00:08:26]
Leo: Yeah, the tools. You can, you can perform a, a pretty good audit just by knowing how to analyze your ad account and maybe a little bit of Google analytics. Actually, we created a guide on this, on our website. It’s how to, it’s called How to Audit Your Digital Marketer, and there’s another one called Top Five Mistakes Your Digital Marketer is Making.

[00:08:42]
Leo: But the, the first one auditing, it really does, it’s a video course of very short, you know, five minute videos. They’re five or six of them. And it goes through how you can take an an ad account and you say, all right. For example, is my non-branded traffic as profitable as I think. And you, you mentioned a second ago about how sometimes, you know, someone managing the ad account might, you know, blend data or make things look better than they are.

[00:09:03]
Leo: Right. Well this is a very common one that I see when I, when I perform audits Yeah. Is I’ll see agencies that will take a Google Ads account and they will mix branded traffic with non-branded traffic. All right. Non gotcha. And what, what I’m meaning by that is, you know, someone, if the name of your company.

[00:09:18]
Leo: You know, you know, you know, whatever exact click digital and someone searches for my company name, they’re very warm, they know who I am, they are looking for me, they’re most likely going to contact me. Whereas someone who just goes out and searches for the service I offer, they have no idea who I am.

[00:09:32]
Leo: Right. So that’s the difference between branded and non-branded. Well, the conversion rate on branded traffic is so much higher. It’s way higher than non-branded. Mm-hmm. . Um, so a lot of times I’ll see agencies that will blend those two and then they’ll, you know, show you this data and say, Hey, look.

[00:09:45]
Leo: Non-branded conversion traffic. We’re getting you. But reality is the vast majority of that is traffic that was gonna convert anyway. Wow. So that’s a really simple one, and I show you how to do that in one of the videos. You know, how to, how to segment the search terms and see another, let’s see, another metric probably be like this.

[00:10:00]
Leo: This is more on the social side. It’s a similar idea. Cold traffic versus warm traffic, right? The warm traffic is people who have, you know, visited your website, they’re on your email list, they know who you are. Cold traffic is someone who doesn’t know you from Adam. They don’t know you. Well, I see this again all the time and Facebook ads is agencies will blend those two traffic sources and they’ll call something cold traffic or top of funnel that is not top of funnel.

[00:10:26]
Leo: It’s actually a bunch of retargeting traffic mixed with top of funnel, and it makes it look like it’s converting and reality is. You’re just throwing money out the window and you don’t even know it. Right. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:10:35]
Arlen: yeah. Interesting. Yeah. You brought up a few good points there that, you know, I guess it’s in a kind of a blessing and, and a curse that we have all of this data and all of these tools that can capture this data, you know, that could easily.

[00:10:47]
Arlen: Like you said, blended together and mixed together to kind of fool people. So yeah, it, you know, it’s good that we have all this data, all of these sources of information and how you can track it, but it, it’s bad that, you know, unfortunately there could be some people that may not be, that, you know, scrupulous or, you know, trying to take advantage of that could use this.

[00:11:06]
Arlen: Data against you because there’s so much of it. And if you, you know, manipulate it in such a way, it could make it seem like the results you’re getting are, are better than they actually are. So yeah, all of that, those points are definitely make sense. And it’s, it’s, it, it’s good to know, you know, that those are some things that you wanna definitely, you know, look out for.

[00:11:24]
Arlen: Now as far as I kind of circle back as far. Capturing information and tools. You mentioned of course, being very familiar with the tool account, the ad tool accounts, like let’s say you’re using Facebook ads, you’re doing Google ads, being familiar with their whole interface, the reporting features and all of that, and that, that, that’s, that’s awesome.

[00:11:44]
Arlen: One of the things though, that I see businesses struggling with these days is because with all of these different ad accounts, you know, you have so many platforms to have to be familiar with and to have to be able to go in and and track, and I know these. There are, I guess, what you can call, uh, marketing dashboards that could kind that kind of blend all of this information or are presented in a, in a, in a fashion that a C A C E O or founder could be able to easily digest.

[00:12:09]
Arlen: Are there any tools like that, that you’re familiar with, that you would recommend, or, you know, are those things worth 

[00:12:15]
Leo: utilizing? Yeah, that’s a good question. I hear that question a lot because it’s, This idea of attribution, of course. And it’s like you could have one customer go through their journey and you get Facebook taking credit for it.

[00:12:27]
Leo: You get Google taking credit for it. You get, you know, TikTok, Microsoft, Twitter, everybody thinks they had the hand and, and, you know, getting this one converted. And the reality is they probably shared that, that that job, right. The, the downside is with a lot of these tools, there are two major issues. One, I don’t think their visibility is any better than, Facebook’s in turn because you have the iOS issue, right?

[00:12:50]
Leo: So Facebook has to model their conversions for any traffic that goes through iOS. Well, these third party tools, they have that same problem. The other issue is it’s advertising is moving towards a cookie list world. You know, even Google is headed that direction. They’ve, they’ve kept, you know, they keep kicking the can down the road as.

[00:13:07]
Leo: Far as when they’re gonna do it, but they have every intention of doing that. And I think it might, might come this year, if not, I would think for sure next year. Right. But as they, as they do that, it’s gonna be even, even more difficult for these third party, you know, data aggregators to, you know, they, they claim to give you that visibility and, and cross cross-channel attribution.

[00:13:25]
Leo: It’s gonna be even more difficult to do that to the point that I, I frankly don’t think. That, uh, or even that accurate. Okay. So our approach is a little bit different. We instead focus on click data. Okay? And you can push that data in through Google Analytics, for example, from Facebook. So Facebook gives you, you know, they model their conversions and they say, Hey, we drove all these conversions for you.

[00:13:45]
Leo: Some of them were click, some of them were, were a view through conversions, meaning they didn’t actually click the ad. Well, the view through view conversions you can’t even really see anymore in the Facebook dashboard. You can’t really break that out. But what you can do, Is a pin, you know, the UTM tags on every click out of Facebook and that will flow in through Google Analytics and then Google Analytics Analytics will say, Hey, look, this traffic came from Facebook and these newer people converted within, you know, out out of those clicks.

[00:14:10]
Leo: And then that will give you a much better view anyway, in my opinion. You don’t have to worry about trying to track view through attribution because those are so nebulous. Anyway, it’s really hard to say. That, you know, someone was served an ad on their Facebook phone or Facebook on their phone, on Facebook, they then went to the browser and opened it up and complete, completed the conversion.

[00:14:27]
Leo: Some of that does happen, but can you really track that back? No. Right. So relying on Facebook’s, you know, modeling to kind of prove that out is, is, is not gonna give you the best data anyway. Anyway. Which you really wanna focus on are the clicks people to actually click to the. And then performed in action.

[00:14:44]
Leo: Cuz that’s, that’s the most, you know, basic event that we can track. We and we know that they did it right. Yeah. So that, I really, I really shy away from those and encourage my clients not to pursue those. Okay. So I think you get data that is, that is quite frankly, better and less complicated just by pushing that data through Google and analytics.

[00:15:02]
Leo: Okay. Got it. 

[00:15:02]
Arlen: Got it. Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned that. Sense because Yeah, I, I’ve heard a lot, I’ve seen a lot of these different data aggregators, these dashboards and, you know, from outside looking in. Yeah. You know, it looks like a good, nice to have. But yeah. I, I, I totally understand what you’re saying.

[00:15:17]
Arlen: That could, you could end up kind of seeing some. View information that’s not necessarily, you know, a hundred percent correct. So yeah, it is best to just take a look at the source and look at just kind of like you said, the main thing is the clicks where people going after that and you know, I, that’s, that’s kind of the bottom line there for sure.

[00:15:33]
Arlen: Now, you know, when you’re starting a campaign with a digital marketer, you know, outside of your company, we kind of talked about this before, you, you want to really kind of have an idea of your expectations. You know, I guess you need to have that clear within your own company. What is it that you’re expecting?

[00:15:48]
Arlen: What type of results are you expecting with these? That these marketers are doing, and you know, what, how, how does that translate to the specific benchmarks that you should set for them? How, you know, how do you really determine that you know, these benchmarks rather than just, you know, cause I know a lot of times companies engage, you know, these digital marketers and then just kind of let them go to town.

[00:16:08]
Arlen: You know, they don’t really put any benchmarks on ’em. Whatever results they get back, they get back and there’s nothing really there that’s makes them accountable, you know? So how do you really come up with the correct benchmarks for your 

[00:16:19]
Leo: company? That’s a great question. So I think there are, there are two main aspects to that.

[00:16:23]
Leo: One is you either, you either go into an engagement and you say, Hey, we are not getting the return. We need to get, that’s one, that’s one problem. Sometimes the company say, Hey, we’ve got the budget, we’re putting money into it, but we, we, we need to hit five x. We’re only getting three x. Okay. So, So that is the, that’s the easiest benchmark.

[00:16:39]
Leo: Say, okay, we’re, we’re below our target on Roaz and we need to get it up to whatever the number needs to be. Okay. Now one’s simple. It’s like, Hey, what is Roaz at the end of the day? Now you gotta, you gotta be a little bit careful with it because like I mentioned before, you might, you might think your roaz needs to be.

[00:16:53]
Leo: When it really needs to be four or it really needs to be seven. So you gotta really dial that in, nail it down, know for sure what your ROAS should be, and then you’ve got your target that you’re moving towards, right? Another thing to look out for on that is you need to pick an account wide roas. So, for example, Facebook.

[00:17:09]
Leo: Let’s say I need to hit five x. I’ve figured that out. I know my numbers and I’ve gotta hit five x. Well, if you’ve gotta hit a five x account wide roas, that means that in your retargeting funnel, you need to be hitting probably closer to nine x. And the reason is because your top of funnel traffic is gonna probably slide in around two x.

[00:17:26]
Leo: Right, and you can, you can move the, uh, budgeter proportionately to make sure the account wide you land at that five x, but you gotta know, going into it, in order to hit five X on the entire account, you’re gonna be below it for the top of funnel. You’re gonna be above it for the middle and bottom of funnel.

[00:17:41]
Leo: So if you’re seeing those metrics, In the middle of bottom funnel, if you’re coming in a five x on the bottom of the funnel, yeah, there’s no way you’ll hit that metric account wide unless you don’t do any top of funnel. Okay? Now the other element, another angle is instead of maybe, maybe roaz is where it needs to be and you’re just not getting the scale, okay?

[00:17:57]
Leo: Mm-hmm. . So like, you know, for example, we could really restrict spend and get you a crazy iro. As you know, we could, we could probably get any brand 10 x by just restricting the spend. Focusing on just the highest value, you know, eyeballs, so to speak. Mm-hmm. , but that’s not really gonna grow your business.

[00:18:15]
Leo: You need scale behind it. Okay. So that could be another benchmark. If you say, Hey, look, we’re getting our number, we’re hitting five x. It’s just that every time we increase our budget, the five x drops to three x. Okay? And so we have no. Scale behind it. You know, we can’t, we can’t ever increase our spend without giving up the ROAS tour.

[00:18:32]
Leo: We’re no longer profitable. So that would be a different set, kind of a different way to look at the benchmark. Say, okay, we’re maybe we’re hitting our five x, but we need to be able to hit our five x and double our spend so that we can turn over more dollars. I see, I see. 

[00:18:44]
Arlen: Yeah, those are good points. Yeah, because Yeah, otherwise, you know, you’re, yeah.

[00:18:50]
Arlen: I mean, I guess the, the, the bottom line to that is really you’re looking at where your kind of shortcomings are within the company with some of the previous campaigns that you’ve done. And then, you know, I’m sure as a company you’d kind of know where you really want to be, and so you’re gonna say that’s probably, there’s.

[00:19:07]
Arlen: Place to start with someone and to say, you know, we’re here, you know, on a return on that spend, but we want to really be here. What can you do with regards to some of the campaigns to get us here? And then, you know, I think just kind of thinking about it, starting kind of just at that basic level, there will at least be able to give you, it’s, it’s almost like a, if you’re dealing with a digital marker that’s almost like, Kind of trials if you, if you will, you know, before getting into doing any more, you know, campaigns and more marketing to try to improve some other things.

[00:19:37]
Arlen: That’s probably this a good starting point to start at, so you can kind of see, all right, if, if they’re able to achieve this, then all right, they’re, you know, they’re able to increase it, they’re able to get it to five x. 10 x even. Alright then, you know, we can kind of trust you with doing some of these other things.

[00:19:51]
Arlen: So it, it, I think that’s really a, a great place to start. Now, Leo, as we get ready to, to, to wrap things up, what I wanted to see is, in your experience, do you think there are any ways, or what do you think are some ways to incentivize. Digital marketers two hit benchmarks. You know, of course you could be, you know, paying these digital marketers maybe a, a fixed amount, maybe to do a particular campaign.

[00:20:17]
Arlen: But I, in, in our space, and especially in MySpace, I, I, I’m, I’m, you know, we deal with instead of based marketing all the time, performance based marketing and so do you see that a lot as far. Saying to digital marketers, all right, if you hit these numbers, you know, we’ll increase, you know, what we’re gonna give you by such and such.

[00:20:34]
Arlen: If you hit hit, this benchmark goes up. Do you see that? And if so, how would something like that 

[00:20:39]
Leo: be structured? Yeah, so the, the most common one that I see is a percentage of Aspen. Okay. Which I, I personally shy away from. I don’t, because I don’t feel like it aligns my interests with the client very well.

[00:20:51]
Leo: I don’t, I don’t ever want my client feeling like, you know, if I come to ’em and say, Hey, we. Scale up our ad spend. If I’m billing them based on the amount they spend, then they’re automatically gonna think you’re just trying to pad your invoice. Right? Yeah. And, and you know, I don’t, I don’t like that dynamic personally.

[00:21:05]

Leo: They’re so, I, you know, if you’re gonna do incentives, I, the, the best thing you can do in my opinion is keep it as. As simple and, and like, it, it needs to be totally unambiguous. Meaning, you know, if you say something like, Hey, if we increase our profit by 10%, I’ll give you a bonus. Well profit man. There’s so much that goes into the word profit that, you know, it could be, you know, and, and that’s on both sides.

[00:21:27]
Leo: The, the person that is the adage is, You may might define profit one way and you define another. Well, now you’ve got miscommunication and someone’s feelings are gonna get hurt. Right? when they, when someone doesn’t get their bonus, well instead maybe you say, maybe you say, Hey, let’s just base it on either top line sales, top line revenue.

[00:21:45]
Leo: That’s an easy one. Or you can say that, uh, instead of making it percentage based, you just put like, An extra whatever the bonus, it could be a thousand dollars bonus, $500 bonus. You know, it’s a flat fee bonus if we achieve, you know, this row as by a certain date, something like that. It’s something very, it’s very fixed.

[00:22:02]
Leo: It’s definite, there’s no ambiguity behind it. And I think that kind of stuff can, can help, you know, and you just, you just wanna make sure you. Structure in a way that completely aligns your interests with the agency and that there’s never any, because people respond to incentives for better or for worse.

[00:22:17]
Leo: Even. Even the most honest person subconsciously, you know, everybody wants to have bonus. They might just kind of, you, you tend to think about things differently unless it’s. Unless it’s aligned in such a way that really makes, makes it make sense for you and the agency. Gotcha. 

[00:22:30]
Arlen: Gotcha. Yeah, that’s, that’s really good to know, you know, because, you know, I can see this in the world of, uh, kind of the freelance digital marketing space where, you know, a lot of these freelancers are gonna be, you know, they’re, they’re kind of dealing with a variety of different types of businesses and they’re gonna be a little bit eager to, you know, to try to win that business over so they can continue to work with them.

[00:22:52]
Arlen: And that’s where I can kind of see this whole. Incentive bases where they may say, okay, we’ll reduce our fee, versus, you know, if we can do something incentive based. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s good to know, you know, some of the correct ways to, to really structure that. Cuz you know, like you said, the percentage of, of of ad spend is, you know, yeah.

[00:23:09]
Arlen: Obviously you’re gonna kind of be thinking that. Yeah. All right. You know, They’re gonna tell you to keep spending and spending and spending because, you know, that’s gonna be more money in their pocket. So that’s, that’s probably something you, you, you do not wanna do. So, yeah. You know, thank you for sharing that.

[00:23:22]
Arlen: That’s some great advice. And I know it’s gonna go a long way with our listeners and, uh, yeah, I’ve, I’ve definitely learned a lot on this podcast for sure. Leo, you know, like I said, this was a area we never really kind of dive into, but I think it’s really timely and it’s kind of to the day that we’re in right now.

[00:23:34]
Arlen: But lastly, before we close things out, I always like to switch gears just so our audience can get to know you a little bit. So, if you don’t mind sharing one closing fun fact about yourself that we, you think 

[00:23:43]
Leo: we’d be interested to know? Let’s see. I’m, I’m kind of a huge tol nerd. I really love the, the books written by j r r Tolkin, you know?

[00:23:50]
Leo: Mm-hmm. . So of course I write The Hobbit Lord, the Rings. Those are kind of, yeah. Things that everybody’s heard of, but. Even his, his more obscure writings. I really like the stuff that he’s written. I think he’s just a fantastic author, kind of one of a kind. Okay. So yeah, that’s kind of, that’s kind of something unique about me.

[00:24:04]
Leo: I’ve got this whole collection on my bookshelf of all these different books. Okay. Of his. And I like to, I like to dive into those and, and, uh, get, get my head into his space sometimes. 

[00:24:13]
Arlen: Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. That’s some good stuff. Yeah. My brother is a big fan of, uh, the Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Jr. Tolkin. He, when we’re growing up, he was a big fan of those books and he read them all and so on.

[00:24:23]
Arlen: Yeah, I definitely know that whole world, that whole space. Nice. Sure. Well, awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. Really appreciate that. Lastly, before we do let you go, if you don’t mind letting our listeners and our viewers. No, the best way to contact you if they wanna pick your brain anymore about auditing digital marketers, or just anything digital marketing.

[00:24:40]
Leo: Yeah. Thank you. So if they want to learn how to audit their market digital marketer themselves, I’ve got a free guide on that on my website. Exact Click, exact click digital.com. And it’s very top. There’s a dropdown for guides. They’d like me to audit it. I, I will be happy to provide a free audit if you go to exact Click digital dot.

[00:24:57]
Leo: Forward slash free audit. You can sign up there, just book a quick intro call with me to make sure I understand your goals, what you’re trying to accomplish, and then I can dive into your account. I’ll send you back a detailed video analysis of the good, bad, and the ugly. Okay, great. 

[00:25:10]
Arlen: Great. Thank you for sharing that.

[00:25:12]
Arlen: Definitely encourage people to, to check out those awesome resources that you, you’re provided there on your site. I’m gonna definitely check them out myself, so thank you for sharing that. And thank you, Leo, for joining us today on the e-Commerce Marketing podcast.

[00:25:21]
Leo:  Thanks. Thank you for listening to the e-Commerce Marketing Podcast.

[00:25:28]
Leo: If you’ve enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate, review, subscribe, and share it with everyone you know. Are you looking to take your digital marketing to the next level, but are tired of weeding through countless YouTube videos with unproven and untrusted marketing strategies? Well, we have the answer for you the more sales every month online digital marketing course.

[00:25:50]
Leo: In this information packed course, you will learn effective keyword research, link building, content marketing, and much more to attract and convert your site visitors into paying customers. Just go to more sales every month.com and sign up today for a low one time fee. In addition to this power packed course, if you would like to get access to a growing repository of digital marketing articles, PDFs, and eBooks, check out get osi.com/resources and opt in to get full access to our library of priceless marketing information to help you take your digital marketing to the next level.

Podcast Guest Info

Leo Ebbert
Founder and president of Exact Click Digital