Marketing Experts Reveal Top Strategies To

Arlen Robinson ([00:02].41)
Welcome to the e-commerce marketing podcast. Everyone, my name is Arlen and I am your host. And today we have a very special guest, Tom is the Co-founder & CEO of NYC-based Cohley, the platform that’s helping brands generate the content they need to win at every step of the consumer journey. Welcome to the podcast, Tom..

Tom ([00:29].186)
Thanks for having me, Arlen. It’s a pleasure to be here.

Arlen Robinson ([00:31].35)
Yeah. And thank you for joining me. I’m really excited to talk to you today. You know, we’re going to be kind of diving deep into optimizing product pages across, you know, brands, different platforms and there’s the retail sites as well as the use of product reviews and video testimonials, which is a huge thing these days. Because I tell you what, I mean, I don’t think there’s too many products I purchase online where I don’t.

check the reviews or testimonials. And if I’m like anybody else, then I think there’s a lot of people that are the same way. So I think it’s very important. And I think it’s going to be a great discussion for us today. But before we dive into all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your background and specifically how you got into what you’re doing today.

Tom ([01:02].742)
Absolutely.

Tom ([01:20].362)
Yeah, so I’m Tom. Pleasure to be here with you again. My background is in social media marketing into the early origins of user-generated content. So I was working at a startup in Silicon Valley with my co-founder, Eric. And basically what we were doing at that startup was helping consumer brands find photos, occasionally videos that ordinary people were posting on their behalf.

and helping them get rights to it, identify, get rights to it, and then put it up in strategic points in the consumer journey. So it could be in social media channels, or it could be directly on the website, right at the point of purchase as a way to add validation, social proof, and oftentimes just help would-be consumers see themselves in the product, right? Versus just like a model or stock photography that’s a little bit more buttoned up.

So we see the rise of influencer marketing right around 2015, 2016. And with our perspective on user generated content, we see the answer to all of our problems in sort of the emerging creator economy. Individuals who had very clear competency and clear skill sets around creating content, in addition to having influence and reach and social clout that could also move the needle for consumer brands.

Arlen Robinson ([02:45].582)
Hmm.

Tom ([02:46].026)
And basically what we did was we set out to build a platform that would connect those same consumer brands, many of whom we used to work with at our past company and connected them with different pockets of content creators, influencers, could be ordinary people doing product reviews, photographers, really any type of content that they needed, we could supply them with that. So.

Arlen Robinson ([03:11].502)
Hmm.

Tom ([03:14].606)
Our mission is not to come in and replace all of the content that a brand creates. But I mean, the fact is that brands need more content today than they’ve ever needed before. Think about TikTok, speaking to different demographics, the need to constantly be testing. So it’s just outrageous how much content the marketer of today needs. So, you know, we helped them turn that content pain into a bonafide strength. And.

Arlen Robinson ([03:26].125)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([03:38].48)
Yeah.

Tom ([03:44].362)
and help them utilize the content that they generate with us in the areas that it’s most valuable. So work with a lot of paid teams, econ teams, as well as branded influencer teams.

Arlen Robinson ([03:47].162)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([03:56].19)
Okay, that’s awesome. Yeah. I can definitely feel the pain of e-commerce businesses when it comes to, like you said, the content pain, the pain of coming up with all of this content for the various platforms. And so, yeah, it’s endless and it’s only increasing. It’s like, the more you feed the beast, the more it’s going to get hungry. The more it’s going to, yeah, it’s just going to get bigger and bigger and you have to keep feeding it. So.

Tom ([04:09].066)
It’s endless. Yes.

Tom ([04:17].426)
Hungry? Yeah, stomach gets bigger. Yeah. Exactly.

Arlen Robinson ([04:23].85)
Um, you know, it’s good and bad, of course, you know, it’s good. And the fact that there’s all of these different platforms and it opens up so many different channels for a brand to, you know, expose themselves and to pull customers from. So that’s, that’s always a big thing.

Tom ([04:38].598)
Yeah, we believe that content is really the connection point between a brand and a consumer. Sometimes we’ll ask people to try to envision Nike without any of their content. It’s hard to picture the brand without it.

Arlen Robinson ([04:42].338)
Yep.

Arlen Robinson ([04:52].266)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now, you kind of have already talked about the rise and from everything that you guys are doing internally at Coley, you’ve already talked about this whole rise of user generated content. And when a brand is thinking about product reviews and video testimonials, you know, how really crucial is it, the authenticity portion of that, you know, how crucial is that? And, you know, with this shift of the user generated content.

Tom ([05:10].347)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([05:22].474)
Um, I mean, do you see people kind of shying away from polished pieces of marketing materials, collaterals and reviews versus just this user generated stuff?

Tom ([05:23].231)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([05:36].234)
Very much so. So in general, consumers, what they’re after is feeling a sense of authenticity coming from a brand and they’re looking for connection. And really they want to believe that the products that they’re buying or the faith that they’re putting in a company is going to result in a smart purchase, right? So if you think about what’s happened in e-commerce specifically in the last three years,

And we’ve accelerated five to 10 years beyond forecasts. Like a lot of these COVID trends, especially in certain categories like grocery, have accelerated and stuck, which is great. But that means that brands need to make sure that they’re putting their best foot forward across these digital channels, or else they’re gonna lose not only e-commerce market share, but commerce market share. And when we look at the…

the influence of online reviews of online content on in-store sales, I mean it’s mind-blowing. Something like 55% of all in-store purchases are considered digitally influenced now. One of the SVPs at Lowe’s the other day came out and said that in their research, they’re finding that 70% of in-store purchases are initially researched on Lowe’s.com.

Arlen Robinson ([06:59].252)
Hmm.

Tom ([06:59].79)
And not to mention the fact that like more and more individuals, something like 68% of individuals would rather consult reviews in store, then talk to an actual store clerk. So when we think about the importance of these digital platforms, sure, we can talk about conversion rates and page optimization across their own.com as well as their retail partners. But, um, you know, the read online, buy offline,

impact is very, very real. So all this stuff is interconnected.

Arlen Robinson ([07:33].359)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, that’s an amazing stat that you said from Lowe’s as far as 70% of people going online first before going into the store. And I can understand that. I think a lot of that also has to do with the fact that these days everyone is so busy. And so, whereas decades ago when there wasn’t, our lives weren’t so, I guess you could say, consumed with so much stuff.

Tom ([07:40].706)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([08:01].282)
things a little bit more simpler where people, you know, on a Saturday, they’d go to the hardware store, you know, browse around, figure out what they want, ask questions these days, you know, people that have families may have kids, there are, you know, many things going on. So they’re strategic. So if you go online first and kind of figure out your direction, um, before going into the store, um, I can see why, where people are kind of leaning towards that route. And so, yeah, so it’s like.

Tom ([08:02].818)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([08:10].811)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([08:17].072)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([08:27].298)
Totally. Yeah, not to mention that a lot of times when you see an in-store display now, it’ll have digital social proof actually listed right there on the store display. Product reviews from the actual website, user generated images. So the interconnectedness between digital and real life purchasing processes is really crazy how it’s developed.

Arlen Robinson ([08:37].834)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([08:52].042)
Yeah, it really has. Now, you know, speaking of kind of user generated content and social proof, what do you, when we’re looking at video testimonials, how does that have an effect if somebody has that on their, on their brand side, how does that have an effect on conversion rates? There are certain industries where the effect is greater than in others.

Tom ([09:07].476)
Yeah.

Tom ([09:13].474)
Mm-hmm. So I’d say it’s important, real quickly, to differentiate between what you might consider to be an influencer video, which is a little bit more produced, text overlay, royalty-free music, more interactive. This person clearly knows what they’re doing. And just a video testimonial that’s essentially just a video version of a product review from a normal consumer, meaning they don’t have a ton of influence. It could just be, you know,

Arlen Robinson ([09:22].262)
Hmm

Tom ([09:43].462)
a mom who’s searching for products for her kids or something like that. But it’s generally can just be like a selfie testimonial type of thing. Might look very raw, but what those videos do when put at the point of purchase is one, they supplement the actual text reviews, help bring it to life a little bit. And two, you know, what, there’ll be a visual representation of the product. These individuals are talking about

things that matter to them, or talking the would-be consumer through their own unique buying purchase and what was important to them, what they found in this product and why they really like it. Ultimately, like you hinted at this earlier, Arlen, but people really trust outside individuals, real consumers, a lot more than they do brands. And by being able to tap into these communities of real people.

to help generate this content, to tell this trustworthy brand story, to actually validate what you’re talking about as a brand. I mean, that is just so critical. The era of just believing what a brand says and tells you about its products at face value is long gone. And the consumer journey isn’t necessarily linear. You’re asking, you’re reading product reviews, you’re going to the one-star reviews and trying to see what’s going on with those.

Arlen Robinson ([10:55].126)

Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([11:04].506)

Mm-hmm.

Tom ([11:05].97)

You’re watching content on TikTok. You’re asking your friends, hey, what do you know about this brand? So, it’s great to see e-commerce continue to spike and it’s great to see commerce as healthy as it’s been. You know, we haven’t quite seen this consumer recession that everyone forecasted, but it does put a lot of pressure on the brands to make sure, again, that they’re putting their best before, that they have the right content at the right places across the consumer journey and that they’re using like really high trust.

Arlen Robinson ([11:29].966)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([11:33].762)
quality stuff from a content standpoint to build those connections and drive people all the way through the purchase.

Arlen Robinson ([11:40].694)
Yeah, yeah, I see that. I think brands definitely these days do realize that consumers aren’t going to just trust everything that they say. They already know that we’re in a whole word of mouth marketing economy, I guess you can say where before making any purchase, so many people are always, they’re going to, they’re going to go to all of these sources. You mentioned Tik Tok, their friends.

Tom ([11:56].493)
That’s right.

Arlen Robinson ([12:04].37)
Um, you know, anyone that they know that may have done anything with the brand purchase the products or services, they’re, they’re going to go there first. And, um, you know.

Tom ([12:10].282)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it’s on the brand to push those dominoes down so that they start to compound, right? And that can just be so, I mean, that can have so many different benefits from a customer acquisition standpoint, overall market penetration standpoint. It’s just massive for brand trust and continued customer loyalty as well, not just the initial purchase.

Arlen Robinson ([12:16].522)
Yeah. For true. For sure. For sure.

Arlen Robinson ([12:25].111)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([12:34].186)
Yeah. Very true. Now, you know, earlier on, we talked a little bit about these, the user generated content, the explosion of it and getting, you know, affiliates and influencers putting this content out, you know, for your brand. Now, of course, a brand has their own marketing messaging and their language that they put out across the different platforms. They’re

Tom ([12:49].013)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([12:59].286)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([13:00].174)
dot com sites, the retail sites. And so you have all of these different channels with the messaging going out, but specifically with the user generated content. I mean, how do you really, you know, ensure the consistency of the messaging and the quality of it, especially if you’ve got all of these different partners putting out, you know, representing your brand across these platforms, is there a specific rule of thumb that a brand should follow?

Tom ([13:27].602)
Yeah, so if we’re talking about social channels, then it’s really important to not just bunch Instagram and TikTok into the same category, for example, right? Those channels may seem very similar, but they actually require much different type of content. TikTok is much more creator-driven. It’s very raw, generally unproduced, while Instagram tends to be a little bit more brushed up, a little bit more…

Arlen Robinson ([13:37].367)
Yeah.

Tom ([13:56].558)
a little bit more polished looking. If we’re thinking about the distribution of say video reviews or product reviews across a brand, own.com and retail sites, that’s where typically the brand is gonna be using a digital asset management tool, a DAM, and then also a PIM, a product information management product as well, so that they can update.

all of these listings across all these retail sites in one central hub, and then disseminate those updates accordingly, right? Because otherwise it just wouldn’t necessarily be scalable to be managing, you know, in some cases, 100 plus SKUs across all of these different retail sites. So you have this central single source of truth for all of these pages. And…

Arlen Robinson ([14:28].406)
Got it.

Arlen Robinson ([14:32].207)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tom ([14:50].318)
That doesn’t mean that we don’t have Amazon or Walmart specific strategies, but as far as the core content that lives on the product pages, that’s generally the flow for brands.

Arlen Robinson ([14:57].783)
Yeah. Okay, gotcha. When it comes to the user generated content or affiliates, you know, with them, of course, as a brand, you can have guidelines for the messaging that they need to follow, but of course it’s up to them to follow it and it’s up to them to really, you know, do the right thing. I mean, is there anything, any specific tips that a brand, as you suggest that a brand can do to kind of keep these.

Tom ([15:12].915)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([15:18].794)
Yeah.

Tom ([15:22].068)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([15:30].714)
Yeah, right. And there is, I’d be lying if I said there was no risk of brand damage when you’re working with external creators. As we’ve continued to do more with enterprise type companies, the more we’ve realized that really what we need to do is provide them with bowling bumpers, which I should probably still be using too. If you saw my bowling, you’d be like, yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([15:31].17)
Partners on track.

Arlen Robinson ([15:39].191)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([15:58].377)
You and me both.

Tom ([15:59].522)
Yeah, I don’t know. I just can’t figure it out. But anyhow, so we give them, you know, the brand guidelines to stay within. But the way that the platform, the Coley platform actually facilitates this is creators, influencers, folks on the platform all have their own portfolios, first party data within those portfolios that they maintain themselves and curate themselves. And then, you know, they’ll apply to work with a brand on a specific project. We call them creative brief with ideas around what

they might want to create for the brand, given all of the details that they’ve laid out in front of the creators. And they can apply with sample content, etc. And then there’s also the additional step of the brand having the opportunity to review the content and approve it before it goes live within the platform so that they can catch potential red flags or even just the usage of content that’s not royalty free and could get them in trouble. So…

It’s important to be able to secure those general directional boundaries for brands. But when we’re talking to brands about testing different content strategies, say on Instagram ads, we do want to encourage them to be open-minded and let the data help guide decision-making. And that can be hard for folks who…

are creative directors or more creative minded because they’re responsible for developing and maintaining this brand ethos, these brand values. I completely get how that can be very challenging, which is why, again, we want to say, okay, we’ll stay within these polling bumpers, but within that, let’s be open-minded and see what the data says about performance. We can take that data and…

improve our customer acquisition costs, win new clients that are new customers that maybe we didn’t even think we had any sort of connection to or appeal with. So, you know, I want, always want marketers to, um, be, you know, rigid and clear about what, what is outside of the scope or what isn’t acceptable, but then within it, make sure that they’re willing to, to let the data guide decision-making and ideally do the loudest voice in the room.

Arlen Robinson ([18:22].374)

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I totally get it. Um, now speaking of like reviews, testimonials, that’s coming from actual customers, negative reviews, of course, are inevitable. I have inevitable. So, uh, you know, how does, how do you guys advise brands to handle these potential, you know, negative reviews and this feedback and how can they actually leverage this to, to kind of be in their favor? Is there, is there any strategy for that?

Tom ([18:28].95)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([18:35].177)
Yes.

Tom ([18:41].59)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([18:49].982)
Yeah, well, yeah. So to start, I as a consumer and data backs this up more broadly than just my own purchasing habits. When I see a product that has two thousand five star reviews and no other reviews, I’m immediately skeptical of that. And a lot of times, too, you know, and this is a power review statistic, big player in the space. People who go straight to consulting one star reviews on a product are actually.

Arlen Robinson ([19:05].311)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([19:16].994)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([19:19].15)
more than 100% more likely to buy than someone who consults no reviews at all. And a lot of times that’s because they see the one star reviews and it’s like, oh, there was a shipping snafu or this made my skin break out because I have oily skin. If I’m a consumer, I’m like, okay, well, it seems like that’s kind of a one-off shipping issue and I don’t have oily skin. So great. I’m good. So yeah, negative reviews can actually…

Arlen Robinson ([19:23].225)
in a while.

Arlen Robinson ([19:38].99)
Yeah.

Tom ([19:47].238)
add the opposite effect and add confidence, add trust. What we do with it occasionally, I think you’ll find this interesting, is we’ll actually have clients take a specific product page with plenty of reviews. We’ll have them put that URL into a Google Bard or a Chat GPT, and the prompt will be, summarize the top five complaints, or negative components of reviews about this product.

Arlen Robinson ([19:50].306)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([20:17].054)
and then give me ad hooks that specifically address those and turn them into positives, which is crazy. So it’s this act of like really owning it. And sometimes like if you’re shopping for a product or researching a brand and you see them answer one of your hesitations or concerns head on, that’s like a major, major thing. You’ll see this occasionally if you notice social ads. I’ve noticed this.

Arlen Robinson ([20:22].502)
Oh wow. Okay. Yeah, that is. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([20:37].322)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Tom ([20:46].598)
much more of a thing as of late, the opening hook will be, our products are expensive, here’s why. You know, and it’s like, oh, okay, well, quality, the process of making it, they’re doing everything in the US, like, you know, whatever it might be, but like all of a sudden, you’re struck by this like, brand trust that kind of washes over you, and you’re like, wow, they really own that. Good for them, like, yeah, so it creates connection and.

Arlen Robinson ([20:53].686)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([21:01].915)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([21:08].695)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([21:12].079)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Tom ([21:16].698)
rather than sweeping these things under the rug or trying to act like everything is perfect, like let’s just be authentic and own it. A few years ago, we worked with a client who was launching a new CBD product and you ingest it orally and a bunch of the, this is pre-launch, so they wanted reviews to support the launch. And a bunch of the reviewers said like, hey,

Arlen Robinson ([21:22].146)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Tom ([21:43].586)
product is great, I can’t stand the taste. And that client got so upset with us, like why would your creators say this? Like they’re getting free product. Our take is like, you’re welcome for the free focus group that you got here, and like you should take these learnings, and by the way, it’s not too late. I hate to break it to you, people don’t think the product tastes good. And yeah, sure enough, they just got mad at us and didn’t take our advice and the product launch flopped. So yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([21:46].158)
Hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([21:52].674)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([21:57].643)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([22:02].605)
Mm-hmm. Right, right.

Arlen Robinson ([22:11].199)
Oh wow.

Tom ([22:12].758)
But yeah, I mean, you bring it, that was a great, I love that question of how do you respond to negative reviews or negative anecdotes. It can totally be used as a positive if you view them the right way.

Arlen Robinson ([22:18].02)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([22:23].098)
Yeah. Yeah, I see that. I see that. It’s just embrace those things. I had hit it head on, like you said, a costly product to say, yeah, we’re expensive, but this is why. So yeah, it’s just that, that kind of, kind of a preemptive strike. I guess you could see. Yeah. Um, now we’re talking about reviews a lot and now it’s good to of course have them, you know, it’s an incredible social proof, but a lot of times, and this is what I see.

Tom ([22:29].278)
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

Tom ([22:37].066)
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Arlen Robinson ([22:51].678)
you know, not only from, you know, my brand, but you’re dealing with other e-commerce brands is it, it is difficult to get these reviews sometimes because people are so busy. And so are there any specific strategies that you can recommend a brand to obtain reviews for cost, you know, from customers, whether it’s just text reviews or even, you know, video testimonials, which are of course even better, but they require a lot more work for the customer.

Tom ([23:13].026)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([23:18].47)
Even harder to get. Yeah. Totally.

Arlen Robinson ([23:21].322)
So what would you recommend for pulling these?

Tom ([23:24].378)
Yeah, so even taking a step back, what we really want to see on a product page is at least 50 product reviews and ideally some videos, but we’ll focus on the actual text reviews for now. Data from Bazaar Voice says that there’s a 30% lift in conversions when there’s at least 50 reviews. There’s also the component of making sure that there are recent reviews left because I don’t want to see a bunch of reviews from Bazaar Voice.

Arlen Robinson ([23:33].123)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([23:37].176)
Okay.

Tom ([23:51].754)
two years ago, like is this product even still here? No one’s buying this, clearly not a cool product. And then we want to find ways to keep star rating above 4.2 ideally. But, so just again looking at product reviews specifically, about one out of 10 buyers are going to sort of organically leave a review after receiving a product, and whether that’s incentivized, like 10% off your next purchase if you leave a review or not.

Arlen Robinson ([23:52].792)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([23:57].154)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([24:14].618)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([24:20].878)
What we’ll do at Coley, and this is becoming one of our primary offerings, is actually help work with the client to find communities of creators or of just reviewers who they can actually send a product to in exchange for a review. And we’ll do a variety of different things throughout that process. We can conduct surveys with those people.

The reviewers can ask questions related to the product. Hey, am I using it right? And we can, by the end, have great survey data from this cohort of reviewers. We have in-depth reviews that are hitting on core product attributes. We’re not going to slap them on the wrist if they leave a three-star review and have X, Y, Z, because so long as they’ve had the opportunity to use it, they’ve had the opportunity to ask questions.

Arlen Robinson ([24:54].339)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([25:16].98)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([25:18].762)
we want an honest review that’s thorough. And ideally that includes images that kind of bring it to life. So that’s a huge way that we add value for clients is we help to address those product review gaps through communities of people who are relevant. So sometimes, you know, if we’re just talking about reviewing a candy bar or a spin drift, that’s applicable to anyone. A lot of times we’ll work with…

Arlen Robinson ([25:20].867)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([25:33].323)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([25:46].934)
with products or companies with products that are a little bit more niche. This is for hypoallergenic cats. We did something last year for the Acorns app where we needed people who had squirrels. That’s a little more rare, even though you could have a squirrel as a pet. No offense if you have a pet squirrel, Arlen, but… Ha ha ha! Yes, yes, indeed, so.

Arlen Robinson ([25:50].669)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([26:03].724)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Arlen Robinson ([26:09].039)
No, I don’t just plenty of plenty enough outside

Tom ([26:15].094)
Yeah, I don’t think my dog would be too happy about that. But anyway, so sometimes there are more niche needs and part of our job is to make sure that we have the communities within our network to link those brands up with the right people so that they can take in the products, review them, get great feedback, leave the product review, all just in exchange for free product, of course.

Arlen Robinson ([26:17].294)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([26:35].786)
Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, the community part is very important. You’ve got to find those communities to be able to get them. And yeah, and, you know, incentivize them is the bottom line. Because these days, you know, you can get some trusted loyal customers that are good, we’ll do it with no incentive, but you do have to sweeten the pot a little bit to get them to take their time. Yeah, sure.

Tom ([26:43].495)
Amplify the voice. Yep.

Tom ([26:55].016)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([27:00].294)
Yeah, and there is no impact on conversion rate when we look at incentivized reviews versus reviews left organically. Yeah, some people are surprised by, but no impact. But I do think that if it’s clearly, if a brand is saying, hey, you better leave a five-star review or else, you’re gonna sense that inauthenticity from the brand. It’s incredible how discerning

Arlen Robinson ([27:08].984)
Okay, okay Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([27:21].813)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([27:25].862)
Yeah, exactly.

Tom ([27:30].99)
today’s consumers are around brand authenticity, especially when you look at like Millennials Gen Z been marketed to on every single medium from like the day they were born. They have pretty good BS meters at this point.

Arlen Robinson ([27:32].65)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([27:41].375)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([27:45].011)
Yeah, this is true. Yeah, you can’t force the consumer’s hand. I mean, you can try. No brands do this all the time, you know, try to force them to do the high review. But yeah, you know, people these days are they’re looking for authentic brands to deal with for sure.

Tom ([27:51].382)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([27:55].338)
Right.

Tom ([27:59].026)
Again, it’s like back to the authenticity piece. Like if there’s a collection of negative reviews, look at those reviews objectively and spot the trends and listen to your customers. They can be great directional guides for ways to improve existing products or iterate on certain concepts and build a new one. What great inspiration.

Arlen Robinson ([28:21].432)
Yep.

Arlen Robinson ([28:24].991)
Yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, well, Thomas, we get ready to wrap things up. I wanted to see how do you envision the overall evolution of product page content?

Tom ([28:35].17)
Mm-hmm. So the old way of viewing a product page from brand perspective is to launch a product, make sure there’s some reviews on there, slap some images on there, and then forget about it. The new way, as you might have guessed, is a lot different than that. You treat these product pages like they are living, breathing organisms, and you’re constantly tending to that garden. So.

Arlen Robinson ([28:47].702)
Yeah. Yep.

Tom ([29:01].842)
If you think about Walmart or Target, they both have their own unique scorecards that’s unique to specific product pages. How good is the product description, the title, all this, where we can impact that is getting fresh imagery, testimonial, video testimonials, and fresh product reviews that speak to the unique attributes of the actual product. We always talk about conversion rate lifts and engagement rate this and

Arlen Robinson ([29:25].678)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([29:32].082)
All those stats are great, but the reason that this content on a product page is so important is we’re just trying to give the consumer the information that they’re looking for and the confidence that they need to make a quick informed purchase. If they land on your product page and they’re not able to find the information they need, they’re not trusting what they’re seeing, there’s not enough reviews, there’s no recent reviews, everything’s five-star.

Arlen Robinson ([29:48].536)
Yeah.

Tom ([30:01].086)
not passing the BS meter type reviews. They’re just gonna go somewhere else because they have a lot of consumer choice. It’s true that e-commerce spend is continuing to skyrocket, but consumers have a lot of choice these days. So you’ve gotta put your best foot forward, gotta tell great stories, and you have to leverage real people, the real voice of the shopper in order to connect with consumers and win them over. And again, like ideally you make quality products and.

Arlen Robinson ([30:03].459)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([30:07].715)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([30:15].944)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([30:23].541)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([30:27].396)
Hmm.

Tom ([30:30].466)
That’s not a one-time purchase. They’re continuing to buy from you. And all of that hard work on the marketing side is well worth it.

Arlen Robinson ([30:37].974)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very true. Very, very well said. And I like the analogy that you said as far as these product pages are almost a living, you gotta look at them and being a living breathing organism that you gotta consistently tend to make tweaks, pictures, text content, always checking it, checking the reviews. Yeah. So it’s not like a, it’s not a set it and forget it thing. You gotta, gotta tend to them.

Tom ([30:49].854)
Yes.

Tom ([30:55].722)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Tom ([31:02].962)
It’s overwhelming, but it’s well worth the effort and the scrutiny, for sure.

Arlen Robinson ([31:07].746)
Yeah. I can definitely see that. Well, Tom, this has been an awesome conversation. I definitely appreciated you coming on. I’ve learned a lot and I know our listeners and viewers have as well. But to close things out, I’d like to switch gears just so our audience can get to know you a little bit better. If you don’t mind sharing one, one closing fun fact about yourself that you think we’d be interested to know.

Tom ([31:29].866)
I won a car on the Price is Right when I was in college. That’s still my 15 minutes of fame, I think. It was Bob Barker’s last year, and that was pretty darn special. I think I have the award for the worst armpit stains in the history of television, so I’m gonna cling to that. Yeah, it was bad. I thought maybe they would edit it or something. I got called up, was the last person called up, won an…

Arlen Robinson ([31:32].586)
Okay. Wow. Oh wow.

Arlen Robinson ([31:48].725)
Okay, gotcha. Wow, that’s awesome. How far did you get?

Arlen Robinson ([31:58].252)
Okay.

Tom ([31:58].934)
Bid on an electric guitar, won that, got up, played a game called One-Away, won a Dodge minivan, Gold’s Dodge Caravan. And then I got to the showcase showdown and the person in front of me got a perfect 100. So I couldn’t beat that, but yeah, it was a special experience. I did. I did, yeah. That’s probably my fun fact. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([32:00].725)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([32:09].268)
OK, awesome.

Arlen Robinson ([32:14].818)
Oh, wow. Gotcha. But you, so you got, you got all the way to the showcase showdown. That’s, that’s good stuff. And you want a car. Okay. That’s a, that’s a good. Yeah. That’s a great fun fact, man. Yeah. Not too many people can say they’ve been on the prices, right. And at least gotten that far for sure.

Tom ([32:33].838)
Yeah, I coincidentally met someone yesterday who was on The Price is Right, which is not something that happens every day. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([32:37].166)
Oh, really? Yeah, sure, for sure. Well, awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that time. I really appreciate that. Lastly, before we do let you go, if our viewers and listeners want to pick your brain anymore about this whole world of content, product pays, development, reviews, what’s the best way for them to reach out to you and connect with you?

Tom ([32:51].478)
Yeah?

Tom ([32:54].882)
Mm-hmm.

Tom ([33:00].714)
Yeah, connect with me via email, tom.cohley.com. That’s C-O-H-L-E-Y.com. Connect with me on LinkedIn, Tom Logan. Hop on cole.com, do some research. If you fill out that form, I’ll make sure to say hello and be sure to say that Arlen sent you.

Arlen Robinson ([33:23].098)
Okay, awesome, awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. We’ll definitely have the link to the website and the show notes so people can connect with you. And I also recommend that they connect with you on the various social networks like LinkedIn. All right, Tom, it’s been a pleasure talking to you. We appreciate having you on the e-commerce marketing podcast.

Tom ([33:34].73)
Yeah.

Tom ([33:40].662)
Thanks, Arlen. You’re a wonderful host.

Arlen Robinson ([33:42].35)
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Podcast Guest Info

Tom Logan
Co-founder & CEO of Cohley