Marketing Experts Reveal Top Strategies To

Arlen Robinson ([00:05].646)
Welcometo the E-commerce Marketing Podcast, everyone. My name is Arlen, I am your host. And today we have a very special guest, Deevo Tindall, who is an extraordinary Entrepreneur, Holistic Branding Strategist, and Content Creator who redefines brand narratives with innovation and authenticity. Deevo’s approach to branding transcends superficial elements; he understands that it’s about crafting an immersive experience that resonates deeply with audiences. At Fusion Creative, he orchestrates a symphony of touchpoints, ensuring a cohesive and unforgettable journey for customers. In a digital landscape, Deevo’s strategies are catalysts for business growth. From social media mastery to SEO and PPC prowess, he offers comprehensive solutions that pave the way to success. Deevo champions unapologetic branding, urging businesses to break free from the ordinary and embrace their distinctiveness. Beyond his strategic acumen, Deevo is a master storyteller and master photographer. His holistic approach to branding captures hearts and minds, bridging the gap between imagination and execution. Welcome to the podcast, Devo.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([00:34].891)
Arlen, thanks for having me, man. Excited to be here.

Arlen Robinson ([00:36].842)
Yeah, thank you for joining me. I’m super excited to talk to you. We’re gonna be diving deep into a kind of a different subject here and I know you’re gonna shed some light into it and that’s gonna be holistic branding and content strategy and really the power of authenticity, which I think is a big thing these days. I think a lot of times these days, people are looking for authentic brands. I think it’s, so I think you’re.

you’re kind of right on the pulse of what consumers want these days. And so you’re going to be enlightening us on that. But, you know, before we do get into all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and, you know, how you got into what you’re doing today.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([01:16].691)
Yeah, thank you. Um, well, I’ve had a myriad of opportunities throughout my life. I feel pretty blessed. I graduated college and went straight into the corporate workforce because that’s what I thought I was supposed to do. I didn’t realize that there was whole opportunities of entrepreneurial world out there for me at the time. Um, but it’s been a journey that I wouldn’t honestly, I don’t believe in. I don’t believe in regrets. All the stuff that I have learned in the corporate world has carried over into what I do as an entrepreneur and all the different businesses that I’ve launched in and now I’m running. So.

Um, I started working right away for a fortune 50 company out in New York City at the time, uh, it was a project manager. Um, but to get started, I went into their executive management development program where I learned literally the entire business in a consolidated two year program. And then when I graduated from that, they put me into a role out back in San Diego, where I oversaw the project management division, um, specifically operational projects, and we did a lot of marketing and branding, uh,

It wasn’t called marketing and branding in the auspice of what we did, but that’s why I had my first exposure to that world of the creative side of things. And then I just sort of fell in love with it. So I did that for almost 15 years. Simultaneously to that, I also was a photographer. I have been since I was 12 years old. So I have been had a camera in my hand since I was a little kid. And I did photography sort of as a moonlight thing after my nine to five. And it wasn’t until around 2005, 2006 that I started.

I really started trying to figure out ways that I could leave the corporate world and start branching out into my own space of entrepreneurialism. And then roughly in 2010, I left the corporate world and launched my first full-time entrepreneurial gig, which was Fusion Photography. And then there’s a bunch of different steps that have happened since then where I am today.

Arlen Robinson ([03:01].274)
Okay, that’s awesome. Great, great story, man. Yeah, it’s, I always applaud people that, have that entrepreneurial itch and then just kind of dive into it. It’s not for the faint of heart, yes, you know, running your own shop and kind of keeping everything going. It’s definitely has its ups and downs, but like you know, and most entrepreneurs know that it’s very rewarding because it’s something that you, you’ve basically birthed.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([03:15].074)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([03:30].076)
from conception all the way to wherever you’re gonna grow it to.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([03:35].891)
Yeah, it’s a crazy thing. You don’t, if you don’t have anybody as a mentor or somebody, an education centered around that entrepreneurial world, you don’t really know what you don’t know. Um, and there’s probably, you know, lots of other people that have traveled the same journey as me, that they’re still kind of stuck in the nine to five, but they have these dreams, they have these visions of doing something different. But I think a lot of people don’t really know how to break free from that. So it isn’t interesting. You’re absolutely right. Like it takes a special person to jump into the space because

Arlen Robinson ([03:59].982)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([04:03].759)
You know, it’s an all or nothing world. Like everything you do is dependent upon your survival. And so, yeah, it does take a special type of personality to take that risk on.

Arlen Robinson ([04:05].597)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([04:08].8)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([04:13].098)
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think also a lot of times people, you know, our whole kind of society now, there’s a lot of focus on businesses, small businesses, and the whole being a boss, being your own boss. And when you look at the kind of exterior of all that, I think people, when you’re looking from the outside in and you’re not in business and you’ve never run anything, it kind of looks more easier, a lot easier than you may know.

So I hear that from a lot of people. A lot of people really don’t realize what it takes. They think you can just kind of set up shop, get some customers and then you’re a millionaire, an instant millionaire.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([04:51].567)
Yeah, it’s crazy. People, I mean, again, people don’t know what they don’t know. If you don’t have any context or experience for that situation, from the outside, everything looks glamorous, you know, and you get to dictate your own hours. You only worked certain days of the week, you get the weekends off. That’s like, that couldn’t be further from the truth. I suppose that’s the dream. That is the reality for some people, but early on when you first launch your business, I mean, you’re eating ramen noodles and salting crackers and working 16 hours a day. So it’s like…

Arlen Robinson ([04:55].222)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([05:00].227)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([05:17].698)
Yep, exactly.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([05:18].675)
at some point you can get there of your success. If you market or die, you will get there, right? But it doesn’t happen that way overnight for sure, right, Arlen?

Arlen Robinson ([05:23].41)
Exactly. Got to market or die for sure. Yeah, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. All right. Well, you know, when you sign up to be on the podcast, Devo, you kind of brought a topic to my mind that when I thought about it, I was kind of familiar about it, but I never kind of heard it like that. And that’s holistic branding. And why don’t you

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([05:28].46)
That’s right. You like that plug I just gave you?

Arlen Robinson ([05:49].914)
Tell us a little bit about really what that is and how does it differ from any traditional branding approaches.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([05:58].219)
Yeah, I mean, I think you probably get 10 different answers if you ask 10 different people, but from my perspective, what holistic branding is, it’s about crafting a brand that resonates at every touch point in the customer journey and that of the brand. So what I mean by that is it’s sort of a double, it’s a two-sided sword. So if you’re a branding agency, you have to be able to, from a holistic perspective, what, how we see it is we start from the beginning with every company or client we work with. So we do brand discovery with them.

And we take a deep dive into who they are as a business. What do they stand for? What problems should they solve? What’s their mission? What’s their purpose? Why do they exist? Why did they decide to build this big audacious dream so that they could sell something to somebody? So what is the problems they solve? What’s their purpose? And then from that point in today’s day and age, it’s creating content around their purpose, around their values, around the problems they serve, and then using that content and using that information that we share with our audience to get them to compel them to buy, to become customers.

And then how do you amplify that? So what are the digital marketing channels that can be amplified with your content and your story and your message and your purpose so that other people can find out about you? So it’s a cradle to grave operational standpoint where we start from the beginning with the client, clarify who they are, what they do, why they do it, create content around that, and then we take all of that content and then we manage that holistically to amplify that brand for them. So paid channels, paid advertising, SEO, website optimization, all the things that help other people find your small business.

Arlen Robinson ([07:23].633)
Hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([07:25].963)

And then on the other side of that holistic branding is, as I said at the outset, it’s every single touch point in the customer journey. So whether it be social media, whether it’s how you answer your telephone calls, whether it’s your customer service, whether it’s the product that you deliver, every little piece in that puzzle of your solution, that whatever problem you’re solving, it has to be holistically created so that every single time your customer engages with you,

Arlen Robinson ([07:26].115)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([07:50].979)
They’re getting consistency. They’re getting the common objective that you’re trying to settle them. The same story, the same type of answer, the same type of brand message, et cetera, et cetera. So does that make sense how I’m explaining it? Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([08:03].246)
Yeah, it definitely does. It really also sounds like you can’t really move forward and apply any of this until you really truly understand who your consumer is. I think you’ve got to properly frame who your ideal customer is. You got to properly frame that avatar in order to create this whole brand narrative around that and then be able to reach these people that should be the ideal. customers, reach them where they are. So I think that’s the very important step.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([08:36].167)
Yeah, absolutely. And that all happens during the brand discovery. And if you if you’re a small business owner, brand discovery is an iterative process because as you grow as a business, your brand can change and evolve and who you are and what you stand for and the type of products. I mean, look at yourself. You’ve been in business for 23 years and you started off as a web design company. And now you’re building products specifically engineered to reach a specific type of niche market. So your brand, your story, your message has changed in the 23 years you’ve been in business. So.

Arlen Robinson ([08:39].682)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([09:02].637)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([09:03].499)
If you’re a new business and you’re just getting started, or if you’re an existing business and you’re finding that you don’t have clarity on who you are and who your niche market is and who your target customer is, that brand discovery will clarify that. And then once that messaging, that brand discovery piece is optimized, then you can take that and put that into everything that you do.

Arlen Robinson ([09:22].862)
Yeah, yeah, very true. And speaking of putting that into everything that you do, you know, we’re right now, we’re just kind of, we’re kind of in an era saturated with so many brands, all of these different types of content. How does one ensure that their brand remains distinctive and true to their holistic vision across, you know, all of these channels, all of these platforms with, you know, all of these partners they may be associated with that are trying to… 

put out a brand narrative.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([09:54].551)
Yeah, I don’t want to be to beat a dead horse, but really being very, very clear on your brand purpose. Why is it that you’re in business? Who are you selling to? What problem do you solve? And really being very crystal clear on your brand message because your brand message is everything that your ideal buyer sees. So when you see Coke or when you see Kinko’s or you see FedEx or you see anything, anybody that you consume, like think about all the products that you love most, right?

you buy those products because you had some sort of a resonant factor with that product. It wasn’t necessarily the product per se, like that’s important, right? But there was some sort of messaging in that space that you connected with that made you want to become a buyer, a repeat buyer of that product. So, and that’s your brand message. Again, that’s that, that’s that consistent delivery of your product, that consistent delivery of your message.

and that consistency across all of your channels. So whether that’s your Google reviews, whether that’s your website, whether that’s your social media, whether that’s the content that you put out, whether that’s the messaging from your CEO when it goes on your, goes onto a podcast. If I showed up on one podcast and said XYZ, and then I showed up on another podcast and was saying ABC about my company and people are listening to it, they’re gonna have brand confusion. So consistency, and you talked about authenticity at the outset.

Arlen Robinson ([11:07].544)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([11:11].863)
It’s a sort of an overused word because now people are trying to overtly be authentic in order to become authentic. So they’re like, do you follow me? It’s like fraudulent authenticity. But generally, be genuine and authentic about your brand and the connections. I always tell everyone that I work with in our spaces, be very, very clear on what problem you’re solving for your client. What is it that you do that’s distinctly different from everyone else?

Arlen Robinson ([11:19].466)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([11:35].214)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([11:38].079)
and give them a reason to want to come back and use your product. And if you’re not clear on what that value proposition is, and you’re not authentically telling that in a story by building trust with your client or connecting with your client, then you’re going to lose customers quickly or never connect with those customers in the first place.

Arlen Robinson ([11:41].402)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([11:55].622)
Yeah, yeah, that’s very important. And I think the authenticity is key. And I think very important that if you’re gonna be authentic, you gotta do it from the very beginning. You can’t, like you said, if you switch things up, if you’re representing your brand a certain way for when you start up and then a year or two into the business and then all of a sudden you switch. And it’s not to say that a brand can’t.

switch their identity and do things like that. But if you’re kind of doing about face and go a totally different direction, that can be problematic because these days people are savvy and they’ll sniff you out and they’ll be like, okay, this brand is not authentic. They’re just doing anything they can to try to sell.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([12:40].747)
Yeah, Arlen, you’re spot on that. And it is OK to switch. It is OK to make a pivot. But I would suggest, if you’re going to be making a pivot, and people knew you as such and such before you made the pivot, let’s tell the story of why you’re making the pivot. Let’s talk about why you’re changing your product line. Why are you changing your logo? Why are you changing the purpose of your business? What are the things that you’re doing? And so that’s what authenticity is. You’re being transparent. You’re allowing other people to see inside your business

Arlen Robinson ([12:55].876)
Right.

Arlen Robinson ([13:01].978)
Hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([13:05].187)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([13:10].519)
so that they understand why you do what you do and the problems that you solve and why they would give you their time, energy, money, resources, et cetera. So if you’re gonna make a switch, just be authentic about it and share the reasons why you’re doing it.

Arlen Robinson ([13:19].232)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([13:22].378)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, very true. You’re right. Yeah. As long as you’re transparent about it, like you said, then the audience or consumers will then still trust your brand and can still, you know, follow you. Now, you know, I’m always a huge advocate on kind of learning from the mistakes of others. So I want to see what would you what would you think is the biggest mistake that you see brands making when they’re trying to create authentic content and put it out there?

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([13:52].943)
Well, I think this really applies for small businesses. But I think in general, anybody trying to rush the process and expecting immediate results. I do a lot of constructive counsel and coaching with small businesses and photographers early on in my career. And one of the things I saw early, very early, is that everyone expected immediate results. It’s like, oh, I want to be an entrepreneur and I just want to make my own hours and I do my own things and I have all this money and I want to like travel all over the world. And I travel a lot. So I would literally get people like, I just want to travel like you. And I was like,

Arlen Robinson ([14:18].027)
Right.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([14:22].551)
Dude, I’ve been doing this for 20 years. Like it didn’t, my first few years in business, my first basically five to 10 years in business, like I wasn’t traveling all over the world. I was working night and day to build this brand, to connect with people. And I made a shit ton of mistakes. And I had to start over in a bunch of different ways to retweak that what didn’t work. So I think people try to rush the process would be my number one. I think the second piece is lack of clarity. Again, what is it you do? Why do you do it?

Arlen Robinson ([14:25].413)
All right.

Arlen Robinson ([14:36].919)
Hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([14:41].604)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([14:51].991)
what problems do you solve? And if you’re not very clear on those, you don’t have clarity around those really three pillars of your business, that’s a really fast way to set yourself up for having to repeat the measures and start things over and rework where you made mistakes on some of your business. I think another thing, we’ve talked about it already about authenticity. I think a lot of people try to be so trendy, especially with social media. We have these channels where we can share everything that we’re doing now, and people always just wanna be really trendy and like what’s in…

Arlen Robinson ([15:13].209)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([15:19].947)
what ends up happening, and I just did a blog on this last week, is you start copying so many different models that you’ve lost focus on what your model actually is. So you’re literally, you’re picking up something from over here, you’re picking up something over here, and you’re trying to like literally mimic everything that you see everyone else is doing instead of really focusing. And I think I’d like to make a caveat to that. I think it’s okay to sample early on, especially if you’re an early entrepreneur, you’re not really quite sure what it is that you’re best at. And so you’re kind of playing in different sandboxes.

Arlen Robinson ([15:42].56)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([15:49].271)
But at some point, you’re gonna have to stand on your own two feet and say, this is my business, I’m drawing a line in the sand, this is what I’m gonna do, this is how I’m gonna do it, this is the problem I’m gonna solve, and stop trying to mimic what everyone else does because you’re right, consumers are really freaking smart and they’ll sniff right through that. So really stay true. Once you’ve really figured out and you have that clarity, don’t try to be anyone else. Focus on your unique story, tell that story. Really do a good job of telling your story

Arlen Robinson ([16:00].75)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([16:04].23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([16:12].59)
Hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([16:18].571)
It’s the storytelling piece in your brand that’s gonna connect with your buyer because again, people connect on an emotional level with your brand. And if they don’t have that emotional connection, they’re going to look for something else somewhere else.

Arlen Robinson ([16:25].625)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([16:29].598)
Yeah, yeah, that’s very, very true. Yeah. I mean, I hear that all over and over again, as far as stories are concerned, that’s really what connects to people. It’s, it’s, they always say, what is it saying? Stories sell not facts and figures and features. It’s, it’s the stories, the connection. And, you know, I know from my own, um, self, I was actually just earlier today, uh, looking at one of our client sites, it was a brand that hadn’t, wasn’t familiar with, and I was just trying to figure out I.

What’s the back story? You know, they had their own DTC site and I’m always the first page I usually go to. Like I’ll kind of peruse the homepage and try to figure out, okay, what is that? Are they doing? Who are they trying to service? Who is their, you know, ideal customer? And then I immediately will go to the about page or there are our story page. Cause I’m, I’m really always curious about, you know, how did this brand

coming to existence, who are the founders, what did they do? And I think a lot of people are that same way. They wanna kind of connect, they wanna form that connection with the founders and who’s running the company, why did they start it? What are their, what’s their mission? That type of thing. So I think that’s really big these days.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([17:41].407)
Yeah, and it can be anything really, truthfully speaking. No two people are alike, and no two people connect with the brand for the same reasons necessarily. There might be variations of the same reason, but everybody sort of has their own context and their own story that they bring to the table when they’re looking for something. I think about yourself, what is your process when you look for a new restaurant, right? You probably go to Google, you wanna see what’s nearby first and foremost, because you don’t wanna drive two hours to get someplace.

Arlen Robinson ([18:05].43)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([18:09].655)
And then what do you do? You look at the restaurant, okay, I’m looking for this type of food. So you sort of already know what it is that you wanna eat. So you’re looking for those types. You can filter that down. And then what’s the next thing you do? At least if you’re like most people, they go straight to the reviews. What are other people saying about the brand? And it doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to be five stars, but you should have sort of a consistent feel from the experience that you’re giving your customers in the anecdotal responses that your clients are sharing.

Arlen Robinson ([18:15].267)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([18:36].054)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([18:36].103)
And, you know, if you, again, it’s okay to have a bad review. I’m not saying that you have to be perfect. I’m just saying that the messaging, the service, the product that you deliver should be consistent across the board so that when other people are seeing it, they’re understanding who you are, what you are, why you, why they should give you their money. And that’s sort of, um, what, what I, what I mean by all the things that I’m saying.

Arlen Robinson ([18:57].502)
Yeah, very true. Now, if we hone in now, particularly on e-commerce businesses with regards to this holistic branding, are there any notable success stories that you’re familiar with that you can kind of, that have embraced holistic branding and have done a good job doing it that you can highlight?

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([19:17].503)
Yeah, all my clients. But I would say, I was trying to think about this question because you sent it to me in advance. And I was trying to think, like, what’s a notable product that really a lot of people might recognize? You and I both wear eyeglasses. So have you heard of a company called Warby Parker? Yeah, so Warby Parker started, they didn’t start off huge, but they started off, you know, very clearly trying to figure out what it was that they wanted to create so they could connect with their people, tell their story, provide affordable, stylish eyewear.

Arlen Robinson ([19:19].082)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([19:31].574)
Yep, I have. Yeah, they’re huge.

Arlen Robinson ([19:36].372)
Yep.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([19:47].127)
that still enable them to give back to the community. So they give back wherever they are, they give back. It’s a massive part of their business. So their entire branding revolves around a really strong mission to provide affordable, stylish eyewear and giving back to the communities in which they exist. And so they do this really cool thing for every pair of glasses they sell, they donate a pair to someone in need, which is really fantastic. And so, and they collect these stories from their customers. So if you were to go into a store and find

buy a pair of Warby glasses, they’re going to ask you to sort of, can you think of anybody who also might need these, might not be able to afford a pair of glasses or needs their eyes checked or something of that nature. And so what they’ve done is they’ve created this user generated content. They’ve created this anecdotal testimonial driven business that empowers their consumers to share.

Arlen Robinson ([20:25].949)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([20:36].803)
because everyone loves to help out. Like at the root of the day, we’re not evil people. Like everyone wants to say they contributed and helped in some way, shape or form, right? So if I can go home and say, you know, I turned somebody on to these pair of glasses and they’re gonna get a free pair of glasses, like that’s a feel good story, right? So they were really, really clear on their mission driven branding. They have a consistent user experience across the board. If you go to any of their stores.

Arlen Robinson ([20:43].503)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([20:50].446)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([20:58].135)
the same sort of messaging, the same sort of visuals, the same sort of marketing, the same sort of branding. And if you go to their social media, everything is about storytelling. Literally everything they do is about telling the story. The people that wear their glasses, how they make their glasses, why they do what they do, the mission, the purpose, the values. And so they’ve done a really good job of connecting with a huge audience that might not necessarily be exposed to them, but are still willing to.

Arlen Robinson ([21:09].071)
Hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([21:24].891)
use their product because of all the different touch points in that customer journey that they’re touching on through their branding and their marketing.

Arlen Robinson ([21:31].594)
Yeah, yeah, they’re a great example. Yeah, they, great job. They’ve done a great job, like you said, with that story. I mean, I remember when I first heard about them, this was like, wow, 10, 15, almost 20 years ago. I think I first heard about them, and they were featured on Oprah a long time ago. And that’s how I first heard about them. And then, you know, right even at that very beginning, they had the, she had the founders on, I think she interviewed them. And that’s where their initial focus was, was on that mission.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([21:47].775)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([21:59].366)
And, you know, helping out any money they brought in, helping others. They had a mission to, you know, empower other countries where eyeglasses were hard to come by and yeah, I mean, I remember that from the very beginning. And they’ve been consistent all the way through. So yeah, that’s been a, that’s a great example and an excellent company to highlight.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([22:18].239)
Yeah. And the output of what they’ve done, which is really, it’s sort of a case study for anybody who wants to understand this type of business. Their customers aren’t buying glasses. They’re buying the brand. They buy the brand story. And because it’s compelling, it’s endearing, it’s resonant, it’s touching. And so people really connect. And that whole thing, all those words I just threw out, those adjectives, those are all emotional touch points.

Arlen Robinson ([22:29].987)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([22:46].679)
So if you can figure out as a brand, how do you connect with your buyer? How do you connect with your audience? How do you connect with people who want to sort of, you may not know about your product, but really love your story. They’re gonna connect with your story first, and then they’re gonna learn about your brand second. And that’s how you’d make that emotional connection with people.

Arlen Robinson ([23:01].49)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You’re totally right. People, they get they get the brand because of that, you know, because of their name and because of what they’re involved in. I mean, especially with like eyeglasses, because there’s a there’s a million and one different brands. And, you know, especially if, you know, you can pretty much choose anything there, you know, for the most part, their frames. And of course, there’s lenses. You can wear, you know, a million and one things and you’re going to have the same result. But you.

people choose to go that route because of their mission and because of the things that they’re involved in. And that’s really important. Well, Diva, as we get ready to wrap things up, I wanted to see how you envision the overall interplay between authenticity, content, and brand value evolving in the next 10 years.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([23:35].661)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([23:53].039)
That’s a great question. I think that social media is perpetually evolving. So what I’m seeing is that social media in and of itself used to be more of a staged, everything has to be perfect sort of interplay. Your content has to be perfect, your messaging has to be perfect, you have to play by the rules of this algorithm and that sort of stuff. But

Because consumers have access to so much different information, and because there are so many different social media channels where you could share your message, the direction started to shift a few years ago, about three or four years ago to more, I don’t want to call it less, um, cultivated content or less curated content, but more, more let’s hear about the story more, more authentic, more, let me see behind the lens. I want to know what’s going on behind.

doors of your building, what behind the doors of your story. And so I think you’re gonna start seeing with this demand for authenticity, since we keep using that word, consumers are just way too freaking smart, man. And they’re gonna sniff right through, as I’ve said before. So I think you’re gonna start seeing more user-generated content, more interaction from social media, more involvement with the consumer, and putting more power into the consumer’s hand. I think content’s gonna become more personalized.

Arlen Robinson ([24:49].09)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([25:15].883)
and more interactive and you’re already starting to see this with video and all the different pieces of, of interactivity you can do on websites, through social media. And I think brand value ultimately, I think it’s ultimately going to be measured by the impact we can make on our customers lives. And that really goes back to what I said at the outset, what problem are you solving? How can you share that message with your consumers?

Arlen Robinson ([25:34].007)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([25:39].546)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([25:42].975)
on how you’re going to make their lives better. And that can come in a variety of ways. You can either be entertainment, you can be educating, you can be inspiring, you can be physically providing a product that meets some of their needs. But in the end, it’s really gonna come down to what impact are you making on the customer’s lives? And I think that because primarily of social media, that that’s just gonna continue to grow.

Arlen Robinson ([26:08].018)
Yeah, yeah, very, very true. And I totally agree. It was like kind of like a few years ago, we started to see the shift. Yeah, people don’t really want to see just the kind of the glossy type of presentations these days where the companies are putting out, you know, just their typical elevator pitch type thing they want to see. Yeah, they’re of course, they want to know what the brand is about. What is it that they’re offering? Is it going to meet my needs? But.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([26:21].865)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([26:35].03)
Yeah, it’s really more wanting to see, all right, how do they get to that point? What’s, you know, who are the players behind the scenes? And that’s more what people are kind of interested in. And it’s, these days, it’s, since everything is really out there, it’s easy to get that information. And I think brands understand that. And they just start off now from the gate, just kind of putting it out there, just kind of putting the truth out.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([27:03].435)
Well, it’s crazy because if I may for a few seconds, just sort of dive into that. Because the generations beneath us, and we’re probably roughly around the same age, I would assume. Um, but because of the generations beneath us have had access to more information than we ever had when we were growing up, they’re sort of already saturated in this space and they, they already have a completely different context on what options they have available to them and they have a plethora of options. Like.

That’s crazy to me. My daughter can literally get on her phone at 10 o’clock at night and order food and have it delivered directly to her door and basically have anything she wants delivered to our door. And I’ll get a door, a ring of the door, but I’ll answer it. It’s like a coffee, it’s some sushi and a chocolate bar. And I’m like, first of all, who told you could order food? And second of all, like, who are you? But that’s just a small, small example of because we have so much information and so much access to so much.

Arlen Robinson ([27:52].133)
Right.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([28:00].607)
It’s really, really important that whatever you’re providing, whatever service you’re doing, that you’re very crystal clear on how you can make yourself available to people because we have so many choices. If we don’t get what we want here, I’m just going to browse and thumb up to the next one. If I don’t get what I want him, just going to thumb up to the next one. So you have to be, and you only have a few seconds to sell that message, which is crazy. So yeah, it’s, um, it’s an interesting time to be alive. Sometimes I shake my head at it. I’m just like, why? But all in all,

Arlen Robinson ([28:09].335)
Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([28:28].679)
It’s pretty fantastic because never before, I mean, this podcast alone, where would I have had the chance to do this 10, 15 years ago to share my personal message with the world and all of your listeners if I didn’t have this information, access to this podcast, this technology. It’s mind blowing to me and how fantastic it really is.

Arlen Robinson ([28:35].438)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([28:44].906)
Yeah, yeah, it really is, really is. Yeah, definitely well said. And it’s a lot of times, I think also it’s kind of a blessing and a curse that people have all access to all this information and all of these options, because if you’re a brand and you’re, you know, you’re not on your Ps and Qs, like you said, it’s easy enough for somebody to just swipe left, swipe right.

close the page and then there’s a million and one other brands that they can go after and get service and get products from. So yeah, it makes it tougher for brands.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([29:18].735)
It does make it tougher, but it also makes it more opportunistic. It depends on how you look at it because you could just fold your arms and say, F it. I don’t have the time to do all that. How am I supposed to keep up with all this? But you can keep up with it if you’re very strategic about it. If you take some time to take a pulse of who you are and what your brand does and how you want to show up in the world, for relatively inexpensive resources, you can get on social media, you can get on podcasts, you can start talking about all the things that you do and connect with different types of audience that you would have never had the chance to connect with. So…

Arlen Robinson ([29:21].503)
Yeah. Yeah, true.

Arlen Robinson ([29:47].118)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([29:48].159)
Yeah, it is a double-edged sword. There are some downplays to it, but again, if you’re in business and you’re trying to run a business and trying to market yourself to a larger audience, I refused to, I refused to hear the excuse. I just don’t have time for it because if you make it a priority, if you make a plan, if you strategize about it, you can very easily connect with people and do all sorts of things that you would have never had the opportunity to do before 10, even 10 years ago. So yeah, it’s a, it’s a fantastic time to be alive in business as an entrepreneur.

Arlen Robinson ([30:12].393)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([30:15].842)
Yeah, you’re very true. Very true. Things are definitely a lot different than 23 years ago when I started when the internet was at its infancy. So you’re totally right. It’s a yeah, it’s a great time to be in business for sure. Well, Devo, this has been an awesome conversation. You know, I definitely love the topic. It’s definitely very timely for any brand that’s in business, you know, how to make sure that, you know, you’re organically you’re making sure that your narrative.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([30:22].872)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([30:43].454)
resonates through everything that you do and then you’re authentic about it. So it’s very important. So I know I learned a lot and I know our listeners and viewers have as well. But lastly before we let you go to close things out, I always like to switch gears just so our audience can get to know you a little bit better. And so I just wanted to see what’s one closing fun fact about yourself that you think our listeners and viewers would be interested to know.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([31:07].987)
Hmm. I don’t know. I’m a Renaissance dude. I’m into a lot of different things. That’s been my problem as a business owner because I really like to do a lot of different things. So sometimes I really have to just sort of do a self check and like rein myself back in because that’s a project that I can start a little bit later, but I really need to focus on this one. But when I’m not running my businesses and traveling, I have, I have two children, two daughters. So they’re teenagers now. So in of itself, that is a handful to manage that. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([31:19].29)
We got you.

Arlen Robinson ([31:33].987)
I can imagine.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([31:35].735)
I’ve been relatively blessed. You know, they’re pretty good kids for the most part. They have, but by and large, they take up a lot of my time. I play soccer, an adult soccer league. That’s always fantastic. That’s how I stay in shape. I travel the world. I try to do at least three international trips every year. And I just recently signed up for deep water scuba diving because I really want to, I wanted to do some deep water scuba photography, you know, like underwater with deep crash sites and things like that, really explore that. So yeah, yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([31:44].058)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([31:54].222)
Oh, wow.

Arlen Robinson ([32:01].174)
Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Yeah. You got to keep it interesting. You know, you got to keep involved in a lot of stuff. Yes, definitely. I know, of course, your, your daughters, first and foremost, I know, keep you busy, especially with two teenage daughters. I know you got your hands full there. But yeah, good, good stuff. scuba diving as well. It’s definitely something that

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([32:05].967)
That’s a few things.

Arlen Robinson ([32:26].146)
I like to do myself. I did like an intro class one time in a big dive, dive pool as far as I went, but I may eventually do it. You know, get a little bit further into it. It’s definitely interesting. And I know you as a photographer, lot of cool stuff you can see at some of these scuba diving sites and you, like you said, crash sites where there’s wreckage and stuff like that. Yeah, pretty cool stuff.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([32:29].749)
Mm-hmm.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([32:40].743)
Yeah.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([32:47].699)
Yeah, I was in, I was in Honduras recently and, uh, just doing some regular snorkeling, but, um, some of the, some of the reef area where we were, they, the reef in itself is, you know, fantastic, but there was, um, there was a wreck and it was like a rumored to be like a pirate ship or something from some other time and they had just discovered it. And so a bunch of the people were that I was traveling with, they, they were already scuba certified and they got to actually go out and dive down there with some of the people and see it. And some of the photos they brought back was like,

Arlen Robinson ([33:02].01)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([33:06].882)
Wow.

Arlen Robinson ([33:14].755)
Okay.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([33:16].643)
Dude, I’m going home and I’m getting signed up for this because I don’t want everyone to miss out on an opportunity like that again.

Arlen Robinson ([33:21].098)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. That’s awesome. Well, good stuff. Well, thank you for sharing that, Diva. I appreciate that. Lastly, before we do let you go, if our listeners and viewers want to reach out to you and pick your brain anymore, you know, about this topic of, you know, their brand and authenticity and the holistic vision for their brand, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([33:42].283)
I’m going to say Instagram just because I’m playing in that sandbox daily. You can find me at Fusion, Fusion Photog, F-U-S-I-O-N Photog. Um, and if I shamelessly may say, I also have a podcast called A Little Impolite. Uh, we’re in our fourth year, not as long as you Arlen, but I’m trying to really grow that. I would love for your listeners to check it out. It’s a fantastic podcast. We, uh, really the theme around it is unlearning everything we’ve been taught. Um, yeah. So a little impolite or on Instagram at Fusion Photog.

Arlen Robinson ([33:44].346)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([33:56].893)
Awesome.

Arlen Robinson ([34:05].315)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([34:09].586)
Okay, great, great. Well, that’s awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. We’ll definitely have the links to those in the show notes so people can connect with you. And definitely it’s been awesome talking to you, Devo. We really appreciate you coming on the eCommerce marketing podcast.

Deevo (Fusion Creative) ([34:23].143)
Thank you for having me on, man. It’s been fantastic, Arlen. Thank you.

Arlen Robinson ([34:25].678)
Thank you.

Podcast Guest Info

Deevo Tindall
Founder of Fusion Creative