Arlen Robinson ([00:03].23)
Welcome2 to the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast, everyone. My name is Arlen and I am your host. And today we have a very special guest, Adam Robinson, who is a serial entrepreneur and the founder/CEO of Retention.com, which helps DTC brands grow their email list 10-15x faster than any other way. He has bootstrapped the company to 20m ARR in 3 years, and sold his last company to private equity for an eight figure exit. Adam is the host of the “10 Years in the Making” podcast, is creating a weekly work-in-public docuseries called “Billion Dollar Challenge”, and posts daily on linkedin and twitter. Adam is an expert in email marketing, list growth, data, compliance, and building software companies. Welcome to the podcast, Adam.

Adam ([01:00].674)
Thank you. I need to update that bio. We’re 21 million ARR now. And it’s four years. I need, I need, I need, yeah, I need to update that bio. Well, thanks for having me on the show, Arlen. Thank you very much.

Arlen Robinson ([01:04].206)
Okay, gotcha. Okay, awesome. Good to know.

Arlen Robinson ([01:12].583)
Yeah, thank you for joining us. You know, this is gonna be a great conversation. You’re not a stranger to the show because you’ve been on before. And I know before you, you really kind of broken down some awesome stuff the last time. And so we’re kind of excited to see what you’re going to bring today. You know, we’re going to be kind of talking about something that I think a lot of businesses or marketers are familiar with. But these types of changes are kind of creeping in. And basically,

or we’re going to be talking about what Apple did with their iOS 17 update. That’s going to be limiting brands or that limited limits brands from tracking users to just seven days, which is down from two years, which is quite a significant change. And you’re going to be talking about ways that a brand can kind of navigate around. Not only that change, but other changes that we know are coming down the pike that are kind of in that same.

uh, vein with limiting tracking and, you know, kind of trying to be on the side of the consumer as far as tracking their activity, their data and things like that. So, um, you know, there’s a lot of changes coming down the pike, but, um, you know, as a brand, you got to be able to shift with these things to be able to market properly and, um, in this tech world, uh, you gotta be on it, um, but, you know, before we dive deep into that.

Why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and let us know a little bit about what you’ve been up to lately. I think the last time you were on the podcast, it was, uh, I want to say good, almost two, three years ago. So, um, I know a lot has changed on your end. So why don’t you break it down for us.

Adam ([02:47].082)
Yeah. And forgive me. My setup here just like crapped out. I got, um, sorry about that. I got this, I’m really into looking good in podcasts and it’s, it’s amazing until it stops working. It’s one of these setups, you know? So I got like an iPad in front of a teleprompter screen and I’m looking you straight in the face until the iPad turns off.

Arlen Robinson ([02:51].612)
No problem.

Arlen Robinson ([02:56].566)
Nope.

Arlen Robinson ([03:01].075)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([03:05].661)

Right. Okay, gotcha. Yep. That’s technology for you. Right.

Adam ([03:15].705)
You know, it’s like mid show. So yeah, I mean.

My business retention.com, we help Shopify stores, our original product, basically help people grow their email lists, and then we started getting into audience expansion for basically abandoned carts. The core problem it was solving was those messages are only getting sent to people who are, the technical term is authenticated, but a way to think about it is logged in to a website. So.

Arlen Robinson ([03:48].17)
Yeah.

Adam ([03:53].346)
That’s still the case. What has happened, which we’ve built tech to sort of, uh, fight against is Apple is making that logged in population shrink, right? Like there’s making it go down. So the history of all of the wrongs in DTC e-commerce can, I think, start at start at iOS 14.

Arlen Robinson ([04:11].024)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([04:21].439)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([04:22].158)
Everybody is listening, shit, and nodding their head, right? Like what that was, was that was like, they were declaring war on cross website tracking, right? So it’s like the third party cookie thing, all that, right? So I O 17, Apple’s been updating what’s called intelligent tracking prevention.

Arlen Robinson ([04:45].302)
Hmm?

Adam ([04:47].218)
And their goal with this is to try to make everyone completely anonymous. Cause that’s their stance, right? They, they, in their ads and all that stuff, it’s like, and the problem with everyone being completely anonymous is that if someone is anonymous, then you can’t do things like send them an abandoned card email because you don’t know there’s the Klavia doesn’t know who they are.

Arlen Robinson ([05:04].379)
Exactly. Mm-hmm.

Adam ([05:09].502)
A year ago, Clavio.

This is getting kind of technical, but even if that user wasn’t logged in, if they were just logged in the first time, Clevio was able to track them that Clevio’s pixel would last two years. So even if they weren’t logged in, they kind of had a way to keep, you know, logging page view histories for product recommendation or like, you know, send these abandoned carts out, um, that’s now down to seven days as of this April.

Arlen Robinson ([05:20].147)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([05:23].711)
Wow.

Arlen Robinson ([05:40].666)
Oh wow.

Adam ([05:42].022)
Which is big, right? And like the same thing’s happening to the meta pixel. It’s just like a big difference. And like seven days is not zero, right? It’s not like the tech still works, but if you think about it in terms of. You have this pool of identified users that whenever they return to your site, they are able to have retargeting communication. Cause that’s what this is. Right. And that’s what.

Arlen Robinson ([05:43].622)
That’s you. Mm-hmm.

Adam ([06:10].658)
That’s what the most of the power of meta. I mean, meta there’s two parts of it, right? One is sourcing originally the original traffic or whatever running traffic. And then the other is retargeting, right? The retargeting part is what we’re talking about now. Um, I mean, it probably cuts the audience when you take it from two years to seven days by like two thirds, which sucks. This is terrible. Um, and then the way around this is.

Arlen Robinson ([06:28].586)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adam ([06:37].782)
And this is getting very technical. The way around this is there’s vendors that can help you and I’m going to give you a list of them, but what they are doing is they’re basically.

Adam ([06:51].31)
helping the brand lay down their own first party cookie that is not Clavio. It looks like it’s a name of brand, Dr. Squatch or True Classic Tees. It looks to Apple like it is a cookie that True Classic needs to make their website function. So…

Arlen Robinson ([06:56].523)
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Adam ([07:18].442)
What I would say, so it works for sure. We do it and I’ll give you three other companies. You’re going to check them out. We’re probably don’t even look at us unless you’re like 5 million in revenue or above. Elavar is a company that does this blot out.io black crow and us. Those are the four vendors that are in the market. We do some other stuff that none of those other vendors do. So if you’re above 5 million check us out, I would say, cause I’m biased, but

Arlen Robinson ([07:30].39)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([07:39].042)
Hmm.

Adam ([07:45].922)
These four vendors are all in the game of, of doing this, you know, another way they refer to it as a server side tracking. So like, there’s like a client, you know, these pixels can be installed client side, which is like in the browse it basically in Google tag manager, it sort of like shows up in the browser or they can be installed server side, which is like, they get sort of deployed through the Shopify CDN content distribution network anyway.

Arlen Robinson ([07:55].169)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adam ([08:17].058)
This is really hard to understand. When you listen to the sales pitches of all the brands, it’s really hard to understand. If you ask any of the brands and they’re the biggest brands in Shopify, what the heck these people are actually doing for them? Their answer is I don’t really know, but it’s working. I’m telling you the reason that it’s working is this reason we described. It’s because they are a vehicle.

Arlen Robinson ([08:22].05)
Mm hmm. Right.

Arlen Robinson ([08:36].849)
Nice answer.

Arlen Robinson ([08:41].725)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([08:45].102)
that is fighting against intelligent tracking prevention to extend your ability to follow your audience of visitors on your own website and track them over time. So that’s the long and short of the message that I have.

Arlen Robinson ([08:59].75)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([09:04].674)
Yeah, good, good stuff. I mean, it’s very interesting. One of the things that kind of came to my mind is that, I mean, yeah, it’s a huge difference going from two years to seven days to be being able to track only is I mean, that’s, that’s a big thing. But when you think about it, in a way, it is giving brands or in a way, lighting fire under brands, because it’s giving them more of a reason to.

control more of their customers’ data, that first party data, and do alternate things that are not really reliant on these other platforms, these social platforms, these other marketing channels, and giving them more of the responsibility being on their end and trying to find other solutions to get people within their funnel and move them along their funnel and do the retargeting and

And, you know, it is spurring more creativity. And then of course there’s companies like you and the others that you mentioned that are, you know, if I found out ways to navigate around it, where you’ve got definitely a market now of customers that are trying to figure this out. And so it kind of brings me to my next question is, you know, as far as marketing strategies are concerned, if we’re talking about marketing on Meta, Facebook, Instagram,

and other platforms like that. How is this, how are their strategies gonna need to change moving forward when they’re talking, when we’re talking about marketing on these platforms?

Adam ([10:46].334)
Yeah, that’s a great question. Cause I only basically address the email side because that’s where we have mostly existed until now, um, the same thing happens to the meta pixel. There’s even worse because all these browsers know about meta and they love blocking that. It’s like their favorite thing to do. So.

Adam ([11:15].214)
fight this, they created the C A the conversions API, the C API. So they created this ability for you to stream events directly from Shopify into meta. Now, if you have a full-time developer, you can do that, right? Like if you have, show me the DTC guy who’s got the full-time developer that’s like, you know, somebody like us, they don’t have them. So, uh,

Arlen Robinson ([11:20].214)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([11:27].699)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([11:48].362)
All of these vendors, which I mentioned, in addition to the email side, they also have the ability with Google, Facebook, Tik TOK, whatever, to stream these events directly from Shopify. In to the conversions API and augment or enhance the data that, that metas getting here’s the thing about it. It’s hard to measure the actual effect of it in meta.

Arlen Robinson ([12:11].126)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([12:18].83)
The one thing they disclose, which is not super helpful, but it’s something is they have this metric called event match quality score. If you Google this event match quality, you can read about it. If you have not done anything to make your event, event match quality score higher, if you log in there, your event match quality, or if you log in to where it tells you to lock in, to see what your event match quality is,

Arlen Robinson ([12:34].678)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([12:49].046)
It’s probably low or medium. If you have already gone and used one of these tools and I’m betting that some people are listening to this, they’re like, Oh yeah, like I already use Elver. I don’t know what they’re doing, but like, you know, whatever it’s, you know, it’s doing it right. It’s like doing this thing that I don’t even understand. Uh, if you’re, if you’ve solved the problem already, then your event match quality score is likely high.

Arlen Robinson ([12:51].616)
Mm-hmm. Right, it works.

Arlen Robinson ([13:12].822)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([13:15].362)
the vendors will tell you that it will probably lead to a 20 to 30% lift in your efficiency. Right. And the reason why is because there’s three components that go into an, uh, into the, your, your bid value, right? If you and me, if we both bid on ad placement as different brands

even at the same cash amount, one of our bid values, meta will calculate a substantially higher than the other one. There’s the cash component, there’s your, it’s called like, it’s something that you affect of like how good the ad is, or like, you know what I mean? It’s like, how relevant is the ad to like the audience that you’re trying to get? And then there’s actually an audience, there’s like a retargeting component of it, right?

Arlen Robinson ([13:45].964)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([13:50].037)
well.

Arlen Robinson ([14:05].196)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([14:12].662)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([14:13].194)
If you can illuminate more audience for them to go to on the first tick, it will make the value of your bid be much higher to them and you’ll win the, you’ll win the auction. So the vendors will tell you it’s 20 to 30% lift. It’s actually impossible to run an AB test, me streaming events in versus not because they just go, it’s one pipe in and then metas got it and they don’t allow you to say, well, let me just see if this is actually working. You know what I mean?

Arlen Robinson ([14:33].792)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([14:41].437)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([14:42].71)
That’s the same way with all the ad tech platforms. On the email side is different because you can literally like split out your abandoned cart flow and you can say, these are the events Klaviyo was getting without me. These are the events it’s getting with me. Look, I’m making this 100% better. On the meta side, you can’t do it. So it’s not like a tactical change, like, oh, you should run your ads this way in this world or whatever. It’s just like.

Arlen Robinson ([14:58].139)
Hmm. Okay, gotcha.

Adam ([15:11].658)
You know, if you’re beyond a certain point and you have not investigated this type of thing and you haven’t like looked at your event match quality score, like you should, that’s what I would say for everybody. Like check your event match quality score out. If it’s not high, then go down, go down the road of trying to solve this problem. If it is high, then somebody on your team has probably done something about it already.

Arlen Robinson ([15:22].976)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([15:30].743)
Mm-hmm. Gotcha.

Adam ([15:40].618)
And they just like, didn’t even try to explain it to you because they didn’t understand what they were doing either. You know what I mean?

Arlen Robinson ([15:45].09)
Right, right, right. Yeah, interesting. Now, what I’m wondering is, you know, we’ve seen, of course, this shift that Apple has made. And, you know, of course, a lot of these other platforms are making similar changes with respect to, you know, this limiting of tracking and, you know, trying to be on the side of the customer. But where do you kind of see this actually going as far as, you know, we’re down to like,

seven days and then is it do you feel that this is eventually going to are they going to just put up a wall at some point and not allow it and then if that’s the case um you know are there going to only be the options that you’re talking about through you know companies like you or are we going to be are they a brand’s going to be totally kind of shut out

Adam ([16:37].882)
I mean, look, they could start doing stuff to affect what we’re doing too, you know? I don’t know. I can tell you the direction it’s going. You know what I mean? They’re not reversing any of these changes. And like the future updates, it will be like, you know, I don’t even know what the correct visualization is, but like tiny little movements that are in the same direction that they’ve already been moving in. Right?

Arlen Robinson ([16:42].443)
Yeah. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([16:51].958)
True. Right.

Arlen Robinson ([17:00].619)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([17:07].926)
Yeah.

Adam ([17:08].266)
It is movements toward anonymity and inability to track in general. Right. Um,

Arlen Robinson ([17:16].775)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adam ([17:21].59)
It’s a cat and mouse game, right? Like there’s, there’s going to be that. So, so, so like Norton antivirus exists because windows put out a new version every three or four years, and there were a bajillion bugs in it. Right. So like, you know, it’s like, I interpret our role in the ecosystem as. Okay. Somebody is crushing your ability to track.

Arlen Robinson ([17:23].443)
Anyway.

Arlen Robinson ([17:38].357)
Right, right.

Adam ([17:50].474)
And that is causing a huge amount of economic damage to the ecosystem. Of course there’s going to be incentive to try to create products to offset that somehow. Right? So like, I kind of just view it as a cat and mouse game and. You know, hopefully for everything that they do, you know, there’s so much incentive to create ways around it that like, we just keep doing that.

Arlen Robinson ([17:55].147)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([18:04].726)
Yeah.

Adam ([18:17].494)
And it’s sort of this thing that we’re just constantly commenting on. It’s like, oh, we had to build this because of this, that, you know, um, that’s why hope happens.

Arlen Robinson ([18:17].814)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([18:23].122)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, I hope so, too, for sure. And, you know, as we said, they’re going on a path where, yeah, of course, they’re not going to reverse it. We’re going to it’s going to keep going more and more and more and more to the point where they’re not going to allow really any type of tracking. And so with all of that in mind and all of these strategic shifts that Apple is making and these other companies are making, we’re looking at maybe just some practical things that an e-commerce brand can do.

Adam ([18:34].059)
Right? Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([18:52].95)
to keep maintaining these typical marketing campaigns. What would you say are some just practical, tangible things that they can do with all of this in mind where they can kind of keep things going?

Adam ([19:07].99)
Yeah. If, if you’re asking me for like lowest hanging fruit, I’m going to tell you, man, build up your opt-in email and SMS list with the best practice search, best practices for collecting emails and SMS. That is worth investing time in. In my opinion, like you own that information, even beyond the sort of, like the stuff I was talking about earlier.

Arlen Robinson ([19:19].094)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([19:25].266)
I got you. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([19:37].887)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([19:38].71)
It’s kind of like running this pool for you that you sort of own, but still you’re kind of like activating on other platforms or whatever. Like if you, you know, learn how to get better at collecting emails and learn how to use SMS to make money or new commerce store like that to me is like the most

Arlen Robinson ([19:46].376)
is true.

Arlen Robinson ([19:55].947)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([19:59].978)
And I just see the value of those two channels going up over time. You know what I mean?

Arlen Robinson ([20:03].17)
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah, I can definitely see that for sure. You know, for a time when SMS was really kind of just getting booming and text messaging was a huge thing, you know, the shift was that way. And then email people were like, OK, well, it’s going to be the future of email. But at this point, yeah, I mean, I think they’re both, like you said, it’s almost kind of neck and neck the value of having your direct customers, emails and their. their mobile numbers to be able to directly reach them. Yeah, I think that’s right. It’s going to be more important than ever to have that, to be able to maintain the relationship that way. You know, it is.

Adam ([20:41].506)
And maybe, maybe what, maybe WhatsApp becomes a channel, but that’s like basically the same thing as SMS, right? Like you have to collect a phone number for someone who gives it to you. They’re not going to let you spam on that thing, right? Like no way. Um, yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([20:47].099)
Yeah, yeah, it is.

Arlen Robinson ([20:51].922)
Yep. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. With SMS though, you know, there still are a few challenges with that. I’ve worked with some other brands that have tried to go down that route, managing large SMS campaigns. And you know, of course, here in the US, there’s, you know, regulations as far as what you can, you can’t do. And, you know, you got to…

Adam ([21:14].687)
Yeah, you gotta be buttoned up.

Arlen Robinson ([21:16].486)
Yeah, exactly. You know, if you’re going to be on the providers that are allowing you to do the SMS’s like the Twilio’s of the world and some of those other providers. Yeah, you got to abide by the rules because if you’re just going to blanket, you know, blast out different campaigns, you know, with that are unsolicited, you could definitely get into trouble and then, you know, you’re not going to be able to do it. So it’s not.

You know, it’s not, you know, easy as one, two, three, but you can do it, but you definitely got to play by the rules for now. One of the things that I was kind of thinking about, and you maybe can answer this, when I thought back to these regulations that they have now with SMS, it kind of reminded me of, you know, 10 or so years ago when the whole CAN SPAM Act was the huge thing and you couldn’t send unsolicited emails and that was really the big thing.

It seems like they’ve kind of pulled back on it. I mean, these days, you know, I’m getting, you know, and a ton of outreach messages, of course, unsolicited, and it just seems like brands are just kind of flying free now. Do you think that’s gonna be the same way eventually with SMS?

Adam ([22:36].846)
So. The law on SMS is very different.

Arlen Robinson ([22:43].266)
Hmm. Yeah.

Adam ([22:46].874)
it’s double opt in and the carriers actually enforce it. Whereas the law on the email side isn’t even opt in at all. And like.

Arlen Robinson ([22:48].682)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([23:01].962)
Like Klaviyo enforces it to the degree that you have tripped their one in a thousand spam rate threshold, or they can identify something else about your email program that is obviously subpar.

Arlen Robinson ([23:16].65)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([23:18].862)
So there’s a lot more.

Like.

In terms of email, the entire enforcement mechanism is like on very large aggregate numbers, because that’s kind of the only way you could do it. And if your aggregate numbers look like shit, then the way you’re getting emails is wrong. That’s kind of what it comes down to, right? You’re not, you’re not being clear. If you’re capturing consent at all, it’s not clear about what they’re signing up for. That’s basically what it is. And if you’re not capturing consent, they’re going to tell you need to. And if you are, then they’re going to tell you that.

Arlen Robinson ([23:38].847)
Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([23:42].667)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Adam ([23:56].246)
it’s not clear what they’re signing up for. You know, on the SMS side, it’s like, you know, they take those complaints seriously, right? Like a few complaints and it can totally, like you’re shut down, you know, cause they’re so protective of that inbox. So, you know, the one exception, which we’ll see what happens this election cycle is, is political campaigns are actually exempt from the consumer SMS marketing laws.

Arlen Robinson ([23:58].067)
Yeah, yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([24:06].654)
Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Arlen Robinson ([24:11].06)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([24:26].359)
Wow.

Adam ([24:26].99)
So that’s why you get all this like, you know, so and so candidate and like wherever like needs your, you know, $3 or whatever. Um, you know, so, so yeah, I don’t think it’s ever going to get, I don’t think it’s ever going to get like email for that reason. You know,

Arlen Robinson ([24:34].811)
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([24:45].132)
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I can understand that. The fact that they’re tied into the cell providers and it goes through them. It’s a little different than with the email. With email, we’re only dealing with hosting providers, SMTP platforms. And you know, there’s a million of those. And these days, of course, there’s only a handful of major

cell providers that are kind of controlling that whole space. And so, yeah, I can, I can see how, yeah, they’re going to, they’re going to keep things tight in there. If you, if you break those regulations, yeah, they’re going to, they’re going to shut you down. Yeah. So I can definitely see, um, how it’s not going to be wide open. Like email is now, um, well, um, Adam, as we get ready to, to wrap things up, um, aside from, you know, some of the low hanging fruit that you talked about, as far as.

SMS, capturing emails directly. What are some other things that brands that have just become aware of all of these changes? What are some first steps that you think they should take to adapt their marketing strategies overall so that they’re more effective?

Adam ([25:57].73)
Well, the thing that I think is it’s not necessarily directly related to this, but kind of, so the thing that I see a lot is a lot of these brands use Klaviyo, you know, you set up your Klaviyo account and when you set it up, it requires you to create what they call an abandoned cart flow. When you create your account.

Arlen Robinson ([26:22].786)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([26:26].13)
Most brands are like, great, I have an abandoned car flow. That’s what I needed. Now I’m going to just like go about my day, send these letters once a week or whatever. That’s actually not an abandoned cart flow. It’s an abandoned checkout flow. Meaning if that is the only thing you’ve set up, if someone puts something in their cart and they leave, unless they make it to the checkout page, they don’t actually get an email when that happens. So the one thing that I would recommend.

Arlen Robinson ([26:29].91)
Right.

Arlen Robinson ([26:35].83)
Boom. Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([26:50].355)
well.

Adam ([26:54].298)
to everybody listening to this is go into your Klaviyo account and see if you have created an add to cart flow yet. Cause that’s Klaviyo lingo for the most lucrative email that exists in the history of the world, which is sending someone an email when they add something to the cart and they leave. So that is, that is like always my biggest advice. It’s like, there’s like a, a naming convention problem out there and

Arlen Robinson ([27:01].63)
I got you.

Arlen Robinson ([27:07].797)
Yeah. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([27:21].882)
Mm-hmm.

Adam ([27:23].866)
I don’t know why those guys chose abandoned cart for that, but they did. And it’s just, it’s just left a lot of low hanging fruit, you know?

Arlen Robinson ([27:29].358)
Yeah.

Arlen Robinson ([27:33].466)
Okay. Yeah. Good tip. Yeah. I’m glad you mentioned that because I can see how a brand, like you said, they go through that. They say, okay, banding cart flow. I’m good. I’m good to go. But that, you know, people, that’s a big difference from having items in the cart versus going all the way to checkout and then, you know, kind of jumping out. That’s a huge, that’s a huge difference. You know, it’s kind of two different things. So yeah, good to know. Good to know. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Adam ([27:42].946)
Done.

Adam ([27:52].683)
Totally. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Arlen Robinson ([28:02].238)
Well, yeah, this is a, we’re kind of at some interesting times, Adam. This has been an awesome conversation. And I was, these things are going to. Steadily change. It’s going to be interesting how things go. Who’s like we said, they’re not going to reverse any of this stuff. Um, and yeah, I think it just keeps brands a little bit more on their toes. Um, and it just goes to show that you really, but at the end of the day, you’ve got to control your customers, data, the customer data, um, and form that relationship with them directly. And, um,

you know, to really to be able to get around what some of these companies like Apple are doing. So yeah, it’s, you know, I guess you could say kind of like a early warning, them reducing the tracking from two years to seven years, it’s just, you know, you gotta really, gotta be cognizant of what’s gonna be coming down the pipe. Well, you know, it’s been a great conversation. I always like.

Adam ([28:54].542)
Yes, sir.

Arlen Robinson ([28:58].506)
to, you know, of course, switch gears here, as you know, from the first time you were on. I wanted to see if you could share one closing fun fact, maybe something different than when you were last on and something that maybe you’re into that you think we would be interested to know. So I already get to know you a little better.

Adam ([29:15].742)
I’m getting it for you.

Arlen Robinson ([29:17].241)
Alright.

Adam ([29:20].886)
I’m into, I’m into my six pound Chowinny, Chihuahua and wiener dog mix. Yeah. She’s, she’s three years old and, uh, she just kind of sits on my couch and watches me work all day and sleep.

Arlen Robinson ([29:22].082)
Hehehe

Arlen Robinson ([29:26].586)
Alright, awesome!

Arlen Robinson ([29:30].906)
Okay, I didn’t know that was a mix. Okay, awesome. Okay.

Okay. Awesome. Well, good. Yeah, it seems like a very low maintenance dog for sure.
Adam ([29:45].954)

Yeah, she’s awesome. She’s watching a car pull out of the parking lot right now, which she’s not happy about. She does not like when things, when environments change. Steady state is the state for her.

Arlen Robinson ([29:51].538)
Gotcha.

Right, right. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, she’s not fazed by the camera at all. She’s not even looking really, barely. Well, now she’s looking. Well, good stuff. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That’s like an awesome dog there. But yeah, lastly, before we do let you go, Adam, if anybody wants to reach out, pick your brain anymore about anything that we discussed or any marketing strategies, what’s the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Adam ([30:03].26)
Right, exactly.

Adam ([30:21].05)
Sure, either email me at adam at retention.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. Retention Adam’s my handle. I do a bunch of posting on LinkedIn, as we said in the intro.

Arlen Robinson ([30:25].909)
Okay.

Arlen Robinson ([30:29].826)
Awesome. We’ll be sure to have the link to your website in our show notes and definitely recommend people to check you out on LinkedIn and hit you up there. Well, it’s been great talking to you, Adam. Really appreciate having you on again on the eCommerce marketing podcast.

Adam ([30:42].851)
Thanks for having mmArlen Robinson ([30:45].122)

Thank you.

Podcast Guest Info

Adam Robinson
Founder/CEO of Retention.com