Arlen Robinson [00:00]
Welcome to the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast, everyone. My name is Arlen and I am your host. And today we’ve got a very special guest,
Jeff Coyle who is the Co-founder of MarketMuse. He is focused on helping content marketers, search engine marketers, agencies, and e-commerce managers build topical authority, improve content quality and turn semantic research into actionable insights. Welcome back to the podcast, Jeff.

Jeff Coyle [00:33]
Hey, Arlen, thanks for having me back. Yeah, that sounds about right to what I’m doing.

Arlen Robinson [00:35]
Sure. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Well, yeah, it’s for anybody that didn’t listen to a previous episode, you of course were on before a couple of years ago. I mean, time really has flown. I think it was probably maybe about two, three years ago. I want to say, you know, nowadays we kind of judge things to post pandemic or prior to the pandemic. I want to say it was post if I’m not mistaken a little bit, a little bit after the pandemic.

Jeff Coyle [01:00]
Mm-hmm, I think so. Yeah, I think so.

Arlen Robinson [01:04]
We had a great conversation then, but today we’re going to be talking about something that I think is, of course, within your wheelhouse, but specifically about creating content clusters to support sales, and how do you really remain authentic and comprehensive in every piece of content that you’re putting out there? Because, yeah, I think it’s a challenge, and I think a lot of companies struggle with this. So you’re going to be enlightening us on that a little bit. But before we dive deep into all of that, why don’t you tell us again a little bit more about your background. What do you have going on today and how did you get into what you’re doing today?

Jeff Coyle [01:39]
Yeah, sure. So my background, I went to Georgia Tech for computer science in the late 90s. Started with my first startup. I was early employee at a company called Knowledge Storm, like late 99, early 2000s, where we were selling leads to B2B software companies. We were convincing companies like IBM and Dell to have website content to generate leads. We were acquired in 07 by Tech Target, a very large B2B publisher. I stayed on there and managed their in-house team for traffic search and engagement, which managed content, content quality, content optimization, but also all the traffic paid, social, and products that related to communities that we had on our entire network. I left there to work, did a brief stint at a private equity firm and then started Market Muse with my co-founder to answer effectively all the challenges that I experienced when we were acquired by Tech Target. They had 300 plus in-house editorial experts, thousands of content contributors. How can I make those folks shine? How can I make their lives simpler? How can I let them think about performance marketing without it detracting from their expertise or their authenticity? And that has really driven the bus for Market Muse. We started really thinking about page level improvements and how to make a page as good as it can be. And now we’ve branched out. We were the first company to launch a content brief in software. We were then looking at it at the site level, site section level, or the topic level to see how well am I doing? How much breadth of coverage do I have? We released a solution into our software called Topic Authority now, gosh, seven years ago, that aimed to look and say, what does it mean to be an expert at the site level, and how well am I doing? How much work do I need to do? So we can give you personalized insights as to how hard it will be for you to take on a particular challenge or win on a particular concept. And that’s what’s really made us differentiated. We’re not just looking at words to pepper in a page. We’re really, really focused on how to exhibit expertise.

Arlen Robinson [04:11]
Yeah, that’s good to know. Really good stuff. Thank you for sharing that background. Some of your background kind of coincides with a little bit about my background as far as your schooling in the timeframe. Yep, I did go to school for computer engineering in the early to mid 90s. I went to Howard University and studied computer engineering. And then I worked for a consulting firm for a couple of years before then launching our brand with a good college friend of mine. And we started off as full service web developers. We’ve kind of went into a little bit of a different area at that time. We were doing full service web development, custom web-based apps and websites.

Jeff Coyle [05:30]
Yeah, like I like to say, I think I just hit my 25th year doing search engine optimization or building search engines. I think I built my first search engine product for a school project in 98. It was an intranet search, and then built a vertical search platform early on as well, which is very topical when you get into the way people are thinking about AI agents and retrieval-generated, augmented generation, because it’s basically achieving those same goals. So it’s just a great time to be doing what we do right now in how much innovation is happening.

Arlen Robinson [05:38]
Yeah, it is incredible. Things are just moving ahead at lightning-fast speed. So yeah, it’s a good time to be in tech for sure. Well, Jeff, I wanted to see if you could just first start off by explaining what the concept of a content cluster is and how does that strategically align with increasing one’s sales.

Jeff Coyle [06:03]
Sure, sure. So I think the way that I like to describe it is there’s the topic cluster or the content cluster that connects to the meaning of a word or the meaning of a concept or a thing, a person, place, or thing. You’ll hear people say entities, which, you know, person, topics, things, not just keywords, but things and strings, not things and not strings, you know, you’ll hear every way of saying it. I like to layer on parts of whatever the buyer or learning journey might be to this, to make it so that it’s more of a two-dimensional matrix. So content cluster and topic clusters would represent that you have content that represents all the stages of the learner or buyer journey on your site. It’s representative of what a true expert would know about a topic. And you have coverage at all those stages. Whether you’re selling socks or whether you’re selling the $100,000 software company or software product, do you have content that would exhibit expertise at all the stages? Do you have appropriate levels of examples that you actually have experience of all within all these things? Do you answer all of the questions that somebody who is part of that purchase decision or owner’s experience? So post-purchase troubleshooting, post-purchase, consumer or customer development, maybe it’s adherence or stickiness if it’s a product or adherence if it’s a drug or pharmaceutical. Do you have all of the parts of that journey covered while also covering all the things that relate to it logically? Right. So if you were to on your website, write one article about how to care for your Boston Terriers’ breathing issues, how much of a signal is that? Is that one page enough to tell the story that you’re an expert on dog health and veterinary science? No, it’s not, right? So what other pages, even if that was the best page ever written on the topic and covered all of it, what are the other pages that a veterinary expert would have on their site? Would they cover other breeds? Would they have covered breathing? Other breeds, would they have covered specific diagnoses and care instructions, right? So when you get into a content cluster, it’s telling the story that you actually know what you’re talking about. And the best way to think about it is, are you covering what your reader or buyer’s journey will be throughout the process? And are you doing things that are typical of how one would cover that entire collection of things and related things? The way that we do this is we look at topics almost like they’re a 3D space of things, right? Like I mentioned, Boston Terrier dogs. Well, if you’re going to cover those dogs, you will likely mention breathing issues. If you were really an expert, you would probably know some of the vocabulary, brachycephalic, which is a really weird word that means they have a smushed face, right? You would cover that. It would be natural that you would cover those things, right? And if you didn’t, and you just wrote Boston Terrier dog, Boston Terrier dog all over your site, you know, that’s going to give a signal that you really aren’t an expert, right? And so e-commerce companies naturally write content and have collections of things you can buy that don’t exhibit expertise. It’s just the product. They don’t necessarily, by the nature of what they build, always cover the entire journey. And that’s been the journey for me in speaking with e-commerce companies who thought of their website solely as a shopping cart. And that’s really the first learning of Clusters here.

Arlen Robinson [10:16]
Yeah, well, thanks for breaking that down. And, you know, I can see that being a big issue for e-commerce brands because, you know, of course, first and foremost, their whole goal is to sell, you know, their products, services are front and center. And, you know, a lot of times the educational process, becoming an authority, kind of takes a back seat.

Jeff Coyle [10:28]
Yeah, right.

Arlen Robinson [10:45]
But from what you’re saying is, especially the way things are now with all of these different types of search engines and social media and things that people are coming to to find out about your company. And I think more people with access to everything that we have from AI to all of these things, people are more educated than ever. So they’ll be able to really sniff out if your company is not really an authority on a particular topic. And I think that that definitely can make a difference when, especially in somebody’s buying when they’re making a buying decision for sure.

Jeff Coyle [11:28]
Yeah, I mean, I think they go through the, you know, a lot of the e-commerce companies have gone through the process of almost thinking of their site as a utility, right? It was the thing that allowed you to collect money to buy the thing that you were selling, right? And then they layered on, they’re like, wait a second, I need to have category pages because sometimes those will rank in search and people will want to browse, not just search. And when you had a category page where it just had a collection of, they’re actually called shingles to search engines. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that phrase, but these shingles are basically where you just have products and you rearrange them in different orders or filters. That’s not providing any unique content for the user, right? So they were like, wait, maybe we should just put a little blurb of text on the page, you ever heard the category blurb, right? Then, hey, should we put that below the folder or above the folder? Does that impact performance, right? That quickly branches out and realizes, hey, that’s not good enough either. That basic blurb’s not helping anyone. No one’s learning anything. And we’ve got this great opportunity to showcase some exciting things that we are experts. We actually do know everything about polo shirts or dogs or whatever.

Arlen Robinson [12:51]
I see.

Jeff Coyle [12:52]
And then it branches out and says, gosh, is there a community that we service? Do we have support? How can we turn that into an exhibition of our expertise? Do we have use cases? I mean, great examples are the builder communities that revolve around large e-commerce brands, and home goods, right? Or it’s like, they have ideas, projects, these are the things that power the exhibition of expertise that you’re a real entity. It’s great that you sell CDs, and I’m dating myself with that. It’s great that you sell records and CDs, right? But are you actually an expert? When you went to a CD store growing up, the cool person working there that really knew what he was talking about about the band that you wanted to hear, that was what made it special. And so it’s almost come full circle. And if you’re gonna try to sell music, you better be able to wax intellectual about the topics, right? You can’t just be, for a non-commodity product, you can’t just shill a product. There’s a lot more needed to drive awareness and also to drive traffic.

Arlen Robinson [14:06]
Yeah, for sure. Now to kind of give us an idea of something specific, would you be able to share an example of where a company has effectively implemented a content cluster and that really made a significant impact on their sales if you happen to know of any company that’s done something like this?

Jeff Coyle [14:27]
I mean, I have so many examples. However, like, you know, I just Home Depot is a brilliant example, right? Where going from just products on a site to category blurbs, to what I call category showcases, which are where you’re linking from those to other sections of the site, to an ideas and do it yourself section to a community and more and more and then integrations with other brands within their organization. But from smaller sites though, it doesn’t have to be a big site for you to pull this off. Countless number of small sites, if they’re actually selling the product, have the ability to showcase the entire journey, showcase it in more ways than just the section of the site. I think some of the, on the flip side, examples where this isn’t tremendously implemented well would be where you treat the blog like it’s a separate entity. Right. So it’s almost like I always call the kind of the alien eyeball that’s over there. It’s not near the main site that’s selling stuff. It’s got one umbilical link to the rest of the site. And then it’s got like a collection of blogs. These are things that are bad signals for e-commerce site. The nature of what they’re writing isn’t just woven naturally and showcased into those categories. So that’s the real way that, you know, you can harness this and treat all that real estate as a mechanism of showing somebody that you’re an expert. And if you are not actually selling the products yourself and you’re an e-commerce affiliate of some sorts, the requirement for these types of things goes even higher. And especially right now, there’s been major changes to the way that Google treats people who aren’t actually selling the products. And the responsibility for you to show that you have expertise with your content, and you’ve actually used the products that you’re preaching about is, so they’re thinking to yourself this query deserves experience. This query deserves real expertise. This we used to call them in a group for great examples for listicles or best ofs or reviews type things. It better illustrate that you actually use the product. I like to use dog examples and beer examples. Because among other things I own a craft brewery, I’m a co-founder of a craft brewery in Georgia. But if you have a site, if you have a page that says that you tried these top 10 beers of a particular type, and like three of them haven’t been in production for six years, you’re immediately not authentic, right? If you are saying that you gave your dog nine different types of food to eat, and this is which ones they like. That’s not a good idea as a dog owner to give your dog nine foods in one day. That’s just the recipe for a disaster. So like these signals of inauthentic non-journalistic approaches to content are what are the anchors of e-commerce. So I like to explain what you shouldn’t do as well as examples of what you should do because that is really what’s driving the bus right now. It’s that authentic, real experiences while also having that come through as you actually care, you have passion here. That’s what’s selling products and that’s what will have longevity and organic search as well.

Arlen Robinson [18:29]
Yeah, I can definitely see that. And I think you mentioned a couple of key things there with the difficulty of maybe some brands treating some of this content just as a separate area, a blog area, and not really integrating all of this knowledge that they have, the authority they have on these different subjects throughout the site, through the product pages, category pages and all of that. So I think brands struggle with how to really come off as being an authority. And I think there’s like a fine line because sometimes they may think that they could be overwhelming the customer with too much info. And so how do you find that fine line? So what would you say are some initial steps that a brand should take to really ensure that they have a solid foundation when they’re creating these content clusters?

Jeff Coyle [19:22]
No, that’s a great question. I’d like to think about it almost like that these pages are some people in their journey will want to access those things and it will provide value. So think of any real estate that you give not as text you’re putting on the page, but almost like a showcase of all of the assets that you have that will provide value for the user or as navigation or wayfinding to those areas of the site if they aren’t active on there. And so a big step there is maybe you have approached a section or a piece of real estate above your categories just as text. Really start to think, well, it’s going to add trust. Some users are going to want to navigate to that. We don’t want to overwhelm them with 6,000 words of text on this category page, but let’s let them access these guides and show them that we understand them and make that prominent. And obviously to do that, you then have to have the content itself and it has to be representative, truly representative of what you would want them to consume. Don’t be afraid to provide your perspective and your point of view and to provide examples and to be real about your recommendations. I think that a lot of times people worry about, should I actually be putting these things into my site? Because I actually sell the thing. Be really thinking about the buyer use cases. I have a great example of a soup brand who prior to thinking about content, they never had a page about recipes. And they never had any examples of people cooking their food. They never spoke about their ingredients. Now, I’m fairly certain the most recent data point is that 90% of their traffic comes from recipes. And this is a packaged good. And this is a pre-made packaged good. So really think about how can you showcase folks using your offers, the things that you’re offering, folks using them as directed, folks using them creatively, can all drive really special parts, special parts of the journey you wouldn’t have expected. So these are the ways that I would be thinking about. Also, if you have any product experts in-house or on access or super users, how can you showcase them? I always like to, you know, has all of the expertise within your walls made it to pages, right? Then you get into that, do we know anybody outside of our walls that we think is worthy of putting a showcase of or having their information and having their insights be part of our experience. All of those things are just adding to your legitimacy and then naturally adding to the, you know, I talked about that three-dimensional space or those check boxes are being covered when you talk about, you know, your top user and when you get the info from your product manager or whatever, you know, they may not contribute directly putting points on the board, but they’re contributing to that mosaic of information that tells the story that you actually are a real brand. And that’s where the long-term wins happen.

Arlen Robinson [23:27]
Yeah, that’s some great advice and it gives people hope that in a lot of these cases, the knowledge that they have about the subject matter under their brand is most likely in-house. They have to just figure out how do they put it together, then how do they present it to their customers and prospective customers. We’re steadily moving quickly technology-wise, and there’s a lot of things going on. So with technology as a whole, this content as a whole, how do you see the role of AI and machine learning evolving in the creation and optimization of these content clusters over the next few years?

Jeff Coyle [24:15]
Well, I’m extraordinarily biased, but I’m building products right now that evaluate clusters on the fly and prioritize, build, estimate sizes of plans one needs to build, build content briefs, actually building custom templates for specifically for e-commerce right now for the types of pages, product reviews, comparison pages. The challenge is that the processes are very different than other than in other fields. So even just when you’re talking about the actual product, what I commonly see in the mistakes made, where people are using AI to optimize for a product name, right? Or they’re doing something related to that where it’s not just about the product name, it’s about the product line. It’s about the brand. It’s about what I call the abstract concept or the mechanical keyboard, right? So you have A1463 keyboard is your product, the keyboard is your product line, the brands, whatever. And then it is a mechanical keyboard. You have to actually think about all of those permutations and concepts when you’re building the content. And so what artificial intelligence allows you to do is use linguistics to understand text really easily and then use that to your advantage so it’s not such a manual effort. So that’s really, really big. What I think people forget though is one of the other big powers of artificial intelligence is it can use your sources of truth and infer information from them or predict information from them very well. So, you know, I use examples in the generation of text or in the generation of strategic recommendations, one can use a product spec sheet as a source of truth. So you can actually converse with your product description page, right? You can converse with your spec site, spec page. You can converse with your entire 600-page catalog that you haven’t figured out a way to get online if you know the right way to do these things. And that’s where I’m seeing some real magic is, is not just saying, hey, go write a guide to making a campfire in your backyard because we make campfire chairs. And then you pump into chat GPT, write me a guide for making a campfire and it puts out this very mediocre page and you plop it on your site and like, Hey, why didn’t I generate millions of traffic? You know, that’s not how the worst thing like this technology does is generate content for use, immediate use, every stage of the process before that is where it really does damage. So ideation, building, doing research, building briefs, building, you know, referent linguistic references so that you can then say, what’s my point of view on this? You know, I can then say, what product information do I want to bring into this? Now injecting that using your own blue sky data using your own product expertise as part of these processes. That’s when the damage in a good way comes. So I’d say, answer to your question is, every step of the process can be influenced, you can write more content, you can actually have higher quality content come out the end, right. But that’s only if you use this, these technologies wisely. If you think it’s a quick jump from idea to draft, those are the e-commerce marketers who aren’t listening to this podcast, I’m sure, but they’re the ones getting in trouble. And they’re the ones who are going down the wrong road. But I mean, I’ll give you one great example. I saw an e-commerce company who built a custom agent for one of their product lines who acted basically as an expert for all of their editorial resources. So all their content team and all their marketers literally had an internal tool that they could ask questions and it would answer those questions. So they were basically, they had the instant product expert, which was, you know, 6000 pages of product information. And they had it on very low temperature, high temperature, it means like, how creative is my response, they had it so it was not creative at all. It only answered the real questions, no hallucination, right. And it became a useful tool for them in-house. So there’s a lot coming. And in my little area of the world, I’m thinking about all the pain points that e-commerce writing teams have about, I want to do a comparison piece on these nine articles, these nine things. Well, I hope you have a point of view about each one. Well, come with the point of view. Have you actually reviewed them? Give me your review information, right? So when you keep a human in the loop, you can use artificial intelligence to make magical things happen.

Arlen Robinson [30:07]
I see.

Jeff Coyle [30:07]
When you take the human out of the loop, you’re basically editing at the end. And sometimes that can take longer than just having done it yourself. And so the advice I give people is really think about you need this thing to be better at the end, not just faster. And you can have both. You really can have both, trust me. And I have 10x to my own speed, you know, without jeopardizing quality.

Arlen Robinson [30:37]
Yeah, well, that’s good to know. And it just sounds like the main takeaway from everything you said is that you have to be just thoughtful with it. You got to come, come with the plan. It’s not about just getting the content in a, get in a hurry and then just immediately, you know, putting it live. Yeah, you, you, you gotta have a plan. You gotta be thoughtful. And the main thing, like you said, is exactly the, the human, a human has to be involved in the whole process with it.

Jeff Coyle [31:02]
It’s gotta be real too. It’s gotta be real.

Arlen Robinson [31:09]
For sure.

Jeff Coyle [31:09]
Well, I mean, I’ll give you the other thing is it’s exactly a lot of criticism for a lot of things, but I get a lot of criticism for me saying, hey, make sure it’s authentic. Right? They’re like, well, it’s not realistic for me to dot dot dot. Okay. Well, then how, how would a journalist do it? Right? That’s how I like to think about it. Right? Will you be then honest about how you’re doing this? Okay, authenticity does not mean required experience. And this is your number one takeaway for anyone listening today. Authenticity does not mean that there’s a default required experience. And a lot of times people fall into this and they believe gosh, I have to review all 6000 products on my e-commerce site. I mean that to buy all of them in certain in certain segments, you really should or you you will need to. But you can also just be honest of the ones that you have and the other ones where you’re using journalistic, you know, and else or that you haven’t reviewed this yet, right? Where you’re seeing people fall down is where they’re faking authenticity. And they’re saying they did something they didn’t. Right. And that is a situation where it takes a very, very deft touch to do that right. To fake authenticity and get away with it is, it’s just, it’s a slippery slope. You might get away with it. But even Google says cheating is time correlative. At one point, I mean, you can cheat and you can win, but we’re going to catch you, right? And so you don’t want to put your business at risk because you weren’t super clear about how you got the information. It can be journalistically, it can have journalistic integrity, and you didn’t actually eat the dog food. I think about that because I was like the dog food example, because if you’re a human, you most likely haven’t eaten any of the dog food. But you’re writing about it, right? So, you know, that application can be for every mechanical keyboard or for every, you know, tactical wallet, you don’t have to actually own every one to have websites to sell them. And, you know, I really, really truly believe those things to be true. And even if you are unable to provide a custom picture or whatever, but you have reviewed this, you know, and you can just exhibit that you know something about it, it’s better than, you know, faking a 600 word article that you spun off of three of your competitors, because that blankety blank catches up to you. And this week, the site reputation abuse update is going out as we speak. And it is related to people posting other people’s coupons and other people’s promotions and they had no connection. Parasite SEO, you know, like a lot of this stuff and you know, cracking down on authenticity and the power of the community. It’s the story for 2024 and 2025 and really focused on e-commerce.

Arlen Robinson [34:47]
Yeah, I can definitely see that. And that’s some great advice there as far as authenticity. And I think it’s something that some of the brands, like you said, that have a huge product line, you know, I think the key thing is, like you said, you have to be honest with it. If you’ve never utilized it, you’ve never really got your hands around these particular products, you got to at least say that you haven’t because otherwise you’re coming off inauthentic and then the thing that you want to focus on is, okay, what have you done? What products have you gone through? You’ve really got your hands on and then what is your plan for everything else? As long as you lay that out, I think people, you know, it comes off being true.

Jeff Coyle [35:31]
Well, that’s real. Yeah, it’s real. It’s like, it’s like, you know, you, you know, your, your person in-house hasn’t worn every one of the hats you sell. Right. But what’s real, you know, like, I, you know, I own a beer brewery. And, you know, if I’m reviewing beers, like, what’s the fun in reviewing a beer, you don’t actually drink. First of all, that’s cuckoo bananas. But, but, but it’s also also like, like, I, you know, I haven’t even had all the beers we’ve made. Right? And it would be completely inauthentic, but it’s totally authentic for me to say, my gosh. Yeah. I was traveling and that one sold out in the tap room in two weeks and I didn’t even get to have it. I’m so bummed, but here’s how well the root described, Ooh, nothing’s more authentic than that story. Right. Like, like, you know, so it’s a, it’s a, it’s a really cool yin and yang. When you start to think of it, like connecting yourself, you’re an actual person. And then you get into the creative ways of having things, you know, you, you sell, you know, you’re selling ice cream and you know, you personally have had the experience of mixing these two flavors together. And I’m being a little, you know, silly with these examples, but you get what I’m saying, right? Like you actually did not construct all of those swing sets in your backyard because you only have one backyard and you sell 90 swing sets. It doesn’t make any sense. Right?

Arlen Robinson [36:42]
Exactly, exactly.

Jeff Coyle [36:59]
And so that’s the stuff that you see. And it’s like, that’s the stuff that catches up with you. And it’s a but a picture from one of your clients who bought the $9,000 swing set. And, you know, loves it and such like things like that. And you have an interview with them and up positives negatives, you know, that’s what you’re looking for. Right?

Arlen Robinson [37:17]
Yeah, exactly. And then you have that testimonial for sure. Well, Jeff, this has been an awesome conversation and definitely appreciate you coming on. And we see that this whole area is, it’s wide open. And I think there’s some key things that companies need to do with regards to these content clusters and just figuring out a plan, how to integrate it within their entire site and all the content that they put out. I think that’s the number one thing. Lastly, before we do let you go, I always like to switch gears so our listeners and viewers can get to know you a little bit better. If you don’t mind sharing one closing fun fact about yourself that you think we’d be interested to know.

Jeff Coyle [38:02]
I’ve teased one of them as I also, you know, I’m really into beer, but I would, you know, and, and I have done it doing that study for four years, and then very successful brand in Georgia. But I say, you know, a fun fact about me is most of my analogies come from real experiences. So I will show you why most of them are Boston Terrier related right there.

Arlen Robinson [38:17]
Okay, awesome.

Jeff Coyle [38:32]
It’s because he’s walking around here snoring if you might even be able to hear. So yeah, as I look around the room, there will be seltzer water references and beer references and dog references and band references all the time. So that fun fact about me is I’m usually taking things out of the sky that I see in the front of my face.

Arlen Robinson [38:47]
Okay. Well, you definitely eat your own dog food for sure. Definitely. Well, thank you for sharing that Jeff. It’s been awesome having you on. Lastly, before we do let you go, if our listeners and viewers want to reach out to you and pick your brain anymore about this topic of content clusters, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

Jeff Coyle [39:17]
Jeff at Jeffrey underscore Coyle on Twitter LinkedIn very active on LinkedIn as well. I’ll also be at Marketing Artificial Intelligence Conference this summer in Cleveland. I recommend everybody go to that. It’s really a truly a wonderful show, but I answer everything DMs, whatever. I love this stuff and that’s the truth.

Arlen Robinson [39:33]
Okay, that’s good to know. We’ll definitely have the links in our show notes and definitely encourage people to reach out to you for sure. Well, it’s been awesome once again, Jeff, for having you on. We really appreciate you coming onto the eCommerce Marketing Podcast.

Jeff Coyle [39:54]
Thanks, it’s been a pleasure and one of my favorite topics and looking forward to what you all have coming out to with your upcoming product releases.

Arlen Robinson [40:03]
ll right, thank you so much. We appreciate that.

Jeff Coyle [40:06]

Podcast Guest Info

Jeff Coyle
Co-founder of MarketMuse