Arlen: Welcome to the e-commerce marketing podcast everyone. I am your host Arlen Robinson and today we have a very special guest Ruth Evan Haim. Who is the Co-founder of StilyoApps - apps made by merchants, for merchants. As a merchant on the Shopify platform, she recognized a lot of needs that were not yet solved, and decided to start developing apps for the platform, focusing on creating apps helping merchants automate processes on their store and increase their revenue.

Ruth: Hey, thank you for having me. 

Arlen: Oh, you're welcome. And I'm super excited to talk to you about Shopify because I am a huge Shopify Advocate. We've got a lot of Shopify customers here at Omni star and I think it's in my opinion one of the best shopping cart platforms, but I know we have listeners are using a variety of different platforms.

So these strategies are applicable to really any e-commerce. But before we get into the topic of today, which is increasing customer retention and improving the average order value. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and specifically how you got into what you're doing today.

Ruth: Yeah, so like you mentioned I was a merchant first before we started developing Shopify apps and honestly, my brother is the one who got me into e-commerce and Shopify specifically. He owned a Shopify plaster that was doing pretty good and he got me interested in trying to start with e-commerce myself and.

It started taking off we started making money, but then my brother and I was also my business partner. Actually we decided to go into a. We just so how many apps we will using in our stores that were helping us make more money and we just figured out that there are some things were still missing but could probably do a little better than existing apps that we saw in the market right?

So that's really how we decided to start with developing apps for the platform. Yeah, and the idea to focus on the thank you page really came out of just looking at the big platforms like Amazon and eBay and how they use the thank you page, which is something that at the moment Shopify Merchants can really do without a third party app.

Arlen: Great and. As far as you know e-commerce businesses are concerned. I know a lot of business owners and an e-commerce businesses all over there always focused on sales driving sales sales sales and you went on when increase the sales want to do as much as we can to increase our monthly sales that's always such a huge Focus, but I think a lot of times businesses fail to think about retaining existing customers that they have and improving.

The experience that their current customers have and then getting more out of their existing customers. So why Try really is it that increase in customer retention and improving the overall average order value is so important these days 

Ruth: so really the big point about customer retention is that if you look at your business is something that you want to do long-term you have to focus on retention customer acquisition is great and it's very exciting to get a new customer.

A lot of data and statistics show that customers who buy for the second third fifth time just spend more money than customers who buy for the first time can be all the way up to five times more on the second purchase. So that's one reason why I really want to get people to buy again and not only by once but.

Even more so it's just about the fact that there is in the end. Whatever Niche you choose to focus on there is a limited number of people that you can get to buy from you. So you don't want to waste each person who buys as just a one-time customer you want to turn them into long-term fans into people who are loyal to your brand and that's the only way to really make sure that your business has the ability to live in the long term.

Arlen: Definitely and what you said definitely makes sense as far as consumers typically purchase more the second third time around fourth and fifth times around and I think really all of that comes down to the fact that. They're now familiar with the brand. They've had a positive experience a lot of times.

I know just from my own experiences when I'm purchasing from maybe a new Merchant. I'm not going to spend the whole fire my first purchase because I don't have any experience with this company and you know, it may be a product. I may just try to test something out something small and it's okay. Let me see how this is.

Let's say I'm buying some clothes I made by let's say a men's shirt before I buy. Three or four different styles at once. I'm going to just try one. I'm going to see how the fit is. I'm going to see how I like it because you know, there's no sense in ordering a whole lot and then if you're not satisfied you having his, you know deal with the returns and all of that.

So it really makes sense that the subsequent purchases are going to be of a higher value because after the initial point if they are satisfied, they're happy with the product and the experience they're going to go come back in order more so that really. Totally makes a lot of sense and I can see how that can ring true with consumers these days.

Now, what are some effective ways you mentioned, you know keeping these customers and usually kind of. Pulling as much out of it as you possibly can what are some effective ways to do a post purchase upsell without turning off customers because I know sometimes when you throw a light at a customer it's you know can be too much and then you know, how do you kind of Define what's enough as far as a post purchase offer?

Ruth: Yeah, so I think. How many episodes you can get away with without overwhelming your customers really individual to each business and each story but as a general guidelines in reconvert, we always give a lot of options and there's a lot of things that you can add to the thank you page, but we always tell customers not to add all of them because obviously it will overwhelm your customers.

You want them to know what you want them to do. So they shouldn't get to the page and feel like they're getting cells and pop-ups popping up from everywhere. Just like you wouldn't want it to happen in any other page in the store generally. Most people add somewhere between 1 2 3 up cells on the page and then maybe.

Two or three more widgets that are not absol's that are things like birthday collector or a post purchase survey something that shows your customers that you're interested in connecting with them in hearing what they have to say and not just in getting them to buy again now to really get. The absolute to be effective.

One of the best things to do is actually give a bigger discount than whatever you're giving anyone else in your store. So if your customers can just opt in to your email distribution list and get a 10% of everything in the store, if you give them another 10% on the thank you page. It's not going to be as effective.

So you want to do a higher percentage than you give anyone. That's one thing that really makes the upsell stand out more and be more attractive to the customers so that they actually want to make use of it because it's something more exclusive and not as common as anything else. 

Arlen: Yeah, that's so true because I have experiences in myself where.

Like you said, you can always offer a 10% discount anywhere that's kind of standard companies will do that. If you someone opts in to their mailing list and to just offer that same discount at checkout doesn't really make sense because it's they could get that anyway, so it has to be an exclusive offer and I that's got think the main thing that you were pressing it something exclusive that only a customer will get so they know that okay.

Wow, I'm a customer I get this. Great discount on this other product or this other feature or this other optional product that I can add on and that that totally makes a lot of sense now with these upsells that are you mentioned, you know, maybe two or three the most that they can. Think about getting away with is there a particular I guess you could say design methodology that you really have to follow when you're constructing.

The presentation of these is there's a like a general rule of thumb about how things need to be laid out based on your experience. 

Ruth: I can't really point out to a specific layout when it comes to the thank you page that work. I would recommend the absol's not to be grouped together, but actually for the customer to first see an Abyssal and then get some order details and then maybe another opsahl right before he's about to leave the page after his cold all the way down and one of the.

Things that work for our customers is actually a pop-up. So the pop-up shows up. Let's say five seconds after the customer got to the thank you page and the amazing thing about this pop-up, obviously because it's a pop-up the customers notice it more. It catches their attention. But other than that on the thank you page.

You're not asking for anything you'll just saying. Hey, thank you for buying. We want to give you a discount now and they don't have to put in their phone number or the email address or anything else. They just get the discount for the act of purchasing and the amazing thing that works in the reconvert pop-up specifically is actually that we add a timer to it.

So the time I really takes conversion rate to the next level because customers have an Elgin see Factor here and. It encourages them to not sleep on it, but actually buy directly from the thank you page, 

Arlen: right? Yeah, that's so true. I've seen the use of these timers a lot more these days and I think you kind of nailed it there it puts an urgency on the.

Customer performing at action because otherwise are you you know people see pop-ups all the time and a lot of times I think people are just kind of so accustomed to just glazing over them sometimes and just clicking and closing them out. But if you have that timer there then there's urgency there.

They'll they're going to hesitate before they close it out because I say, okay. Wait a minute is it how much more time is left? They see maybe okay. It's only a couple more hours. They're going to pause before they close it out and that's going to actually make them. I believe at least take a look at it more thoroughly before they decide to do any type of Engagement.

So that that really makes a lot of sense, you know, not the beginning you mentioned as far as I talked about so many e-commerce businesses are focused on sales sales sales and just growing the sales and items they forget about. Retaining their customers and getting more out of their existing customers.

But really the only way to grow your customer relationship and retain these customers is going to be through effective communication that you have with these customers. So what are some ways to make your customer communication more personal because I think. Many times people are turned off by just getting automated bot.

So to speak bot emails. What are some suggestions that you have to make it personal? 

Ruth: Yeah. So the first thing when it comes to a personalizing the communication process purchase, if you ask me is to make sure you're talking to your customers in whatever platform they feel comfortable with. So a lot of stores only have an email distribution list, but as we know a lot of customers don't really open their emails anymore.

That doesn't mean email is bad. It just means you need to give your customers the option to talk with you. Whatever it is for email SMS Facebook Messenger Instagram, whatever you can reach out to them give them the option to subscribe so that you all communication is actually whatever they wanted to be a not free dictated by you now for the messages themselves in the communication.

The rule of thumb really is too. Get as much information about your customers as possible when someone buys you have some basic information about their name where they're from what kind of products in your store they like if you had something like a birthday collector, you can actually know when their birthday is and send them a special message saying happy birthday.

If you add something like a post-purchase survey, then you can ask specific questions that you want to know about your customers so that you know how to really talk to them in the language that they're interested in listening to you in and you know, really what subjects they're interested in and they want to learn about.

So it's all about showing your customers that you care not always selling but actually asking them what they think what they want and trying to come up with ways to answer their needs and desires. 

Arlen: That's awesome. And that's some great advice for sure. You really have to find out a lot more about your customers to help facilitate the best communication because like you said, there's so many platforms these days that.

There's some people that you know, they may not check their emails, but they're big on Facebook. So Facebook Messenger may be a way to communicate or some of the other social platforms. So you really have to do your homework upfront and figure out what are the best lines of communication for your customers your different types of customers and then you create the proper messaging across each of those channels.

So that's really very important. Now as far as. Communication is concerned. One of the things that I actually realized is that of course you want to get this information from customers, but I think what can also help is that as a brand you do also have to open yourself up to kind of letting people see what's behind the proverbial doors or whatever Storage Wars.

So you know, who's there behind? The shop doing the work who is there that came up with these products the concept and all of that. So you have to open yourself up because once you do that, I think that will also help your customers open up themselves, you know, one of the things that I told in a previous podcast is that.

What I usually do when I'm looking at different e-commerce sites, and I'm trying to purchase something from a specific Brands website. I'm always interested in who the founder is who the owner is. How did they come up with this product? What's their backstory? And I think once you put that out there you humanize the brand and you get people to feel a bit more comfortable and that that also can help.

Form the communication make us more of a solid communication give people more openness to let them know about you. What are the types of things that that they want your customers want? So yeah, that's another thing that I think is also very important that can help communication. 

Ruth: Yeah. I totally agree.

Yeah, it's all about the Brand Story and the Brand's values when you really want to form a deeper relationship. 

Arlen: Right, and I don't know if it's always been like this, you know, if we look at past decades and how relationships customers had with brand, but I do know now it's more so. Especially with the millennial generation.

I think Millennials that are purchasing kind of have that because I think it's social media. They're so used to knowing so much about everyone, you know, all of this year. They want to know everything about you know, every company that they're dealing with so I think that's I think what's further spawned all of this.

Now we talked a little bit about the you know, what you can do with the thank you page, of course and the upsells that you should do. What are some other types of things that you can actually do on the order. Thank you page to increase the average order value. 

Ruth: So other than absol's like I mentioned before you can add some elements that collect information about your customers so that you can improve your communication with them post purchase.

You can also just communicate that kind of brand story and values that we just talked about through something like an image with text or a video of you looking into your customers eyes thought a computer. And saying thank you for buying and maybe talking a little bit about yourself about the product about the brand anything that really helps you communicate and connect with them on a more personal level.

Another thing you could do is really invite them to Shell though order on social media, but also to follow you on social media and connect with you that way too 

Arlen: right that's really huge. The sharing on social media is really big especially right at the post purchase because we're kind of in the age of.

Where people want to share everything they want to share what they just purchased especially if they're excited. They've had a positive experience and you know people these days they want to brag they want to say okay. I got this they want to share that with their friends and family and that's also a great way to do it.

Ruth: Also people tend to trust their friends recommendations much more than they would trust an affiliate or an influencer. So while these. Marketing methods are amazing. Also just getting your customers to spread the word about your brand water mouth. It's really an amazing opportunity for them to just share.

Hey, I just bought this you want to get one to you can get a 10% off for my link or something like that. 

Arlen: Yeah, exactly. You're right. As far as these customers. Yeah sharing there's also definitely a large part of people that they're going to share with it. They're going to be their friends and their friends are going to really trust them a lot more and then that's that's kind of how where you can kind of see I would say a spike in your sales because typically the majority of the.

That people have on their different social networks are going to be friends and family people that are close to most of the people that they have the highest level of Engagement with at least so yeah that that's where they can if they do share that you're going to get more of a kind of a higher Bang there because those are people that trust them and Trust what they say now as far as increasing the average order value by doing these different types of upsells.

In your experience, are there any particular stats that you have as far as if a company Implement some of these strategies? Let's say they're not doing any type of upselling. They're not doing any type of post purchase engagement at all right now, maybe they just have to stand your thank you page and I do anything like that.

Once they do Implement some of these strategies. Do you have any statistics on what type of increase they can see as far as. Order value or overall Revenue. 

Ruth: Yes, so I can tell you first of all that the numbers really change according to the type of store. You have the industry. You're mostly what what is the average price of your product is it high or low how many cells you get a month?

So the numbers really very I want anyone listening to take into account that the numbers I'm going to be talking about my chain. For Better or Worse depending on their industry but basically in Shopify, I can't really talk about other platforms, but I'm guessing the numbers are pretty similar we can see that each thank you page is actually viewed in average two and a half times.

So after someone completes a purchase is not the only time he sees the thank you page Shopify turns this page into the order status page. So whenever the customer gets an email form Shopify with a status update on his order he gets a link back to the same page. So this page gets more than twice as much traffic as the number of orders.

It just makes it a more important page to actually utilize because otherwise it's just lost eyeballs that are getting there and leaving without really taking any action what we've seen as far as conversion rate for the thank you page. Let's start by just saying that before you do anything if you haven't used that at all and haven't optimized that the conversion rate of the thank you page is zero.

No one is converting from the thank you page that you just. See the summary of the order and leave once you actually use it. And optimize it the conversion rate can be anywhere between one to seven percent which is what we're seeing. Mostly but like I said, it can change according to your industry and the number of orders you get so sometimes we see more and sometimes we see less but even for people with let's say 0.5 percent conversion rate.

We actually see that they are why. Is really high because these are people that get to the page you didn't spend any money to get them into this page. You spent the money to get them to the site and they've already attend this investment by making the first purchase now the second purchase that could come from the thank you page is basically a freebie for you as the store owner because the customer has already.

Like I said, it turned investment of advertising that you put into it. So conversion rate could be anywhere between one to seven percent but we've seen some stalls with even fifteen percent conversion rate, but these are the more outstanding ones when it comes to revenue we see an increase for stars using reconvert and optimizing the thank you page of some of it we in 5 to 15% by average.

And again, this is the average it could be less or it could be more depending on a lot of variables, but this is a pretty huge increase for any store. So whatever you are using Shopify a new using reconvert or you using another platform and you were optimizing it on your own with the developer. I really recommend optimizing the thank you page because it's just this.

Wasted the real estate if you're not doing anything with it, it's just this place that becomes a door where your customers leave the pet store instead of staying and buying more which is what happens when you actually optimize it 

Arlen: right. That is very well said Ruth now. A lot of businesses. You don't really realize that but like you said it specifically with Shopify that that order status page is just the thank you page.

So that people are going to go back there regardless, they're going to begin checking the status. So that makes a lot of sense that if you don't do anything extra there, you're really just kind of wasting those views. And anything that you get at that point, like you said, it's really just extra, you know, it's just kind of gravy there.

So even if it's not an actual sale, maybe even if you get them to do perform some type of action that can lead to. Rowing the relationship like you said collecting information may be of course opting in to the email list. Maybe you have a contest whatever it is, whatever you can get them to do at that point.

It's just really going to be a benefit to your business outside of that initial investment that you're getting the, you know, the return on your initial investment for sure. Well Ruth, you know you definitely shared a whole lot with us and I appreciate you coming on to the e-commerce marketing podcast.

This has been an area that I hadn't delved into much at all on the podcast as far as the post purchase and increasing the average order value. So I really appreciate that and I know it's going to go a long way with all of our listeners. My listeners all know that I always close out things with one final kind of changing gear questions here just by closing fun fact, just so our listeners can get to know a little bit more about you.

What is one fun fact that you can share with us that aren't audience may be surprised to know about you. 

Ruth: Well, I would say that the one that I'd like to share is that I'm a total Harry Potter fan from childhood and up until today. I sometimes watch the movies or read the books whenever I can. 

Arlen: Okay.

Wow, so you've read the multiple times. Yeah, 

Ruth: definitely. 

Arlen: Okay. Okay. Wow. Yeah, my business partners daughter. She's 10 years old. She is a huge Harry Potter fan and she's gone through I think at least six of the books already and I'm like, wow, I'm amazed at age 10 and those books are there nothing to sneeze at there thick.

There's some long stories there. So I applaud her and I applaud you for diving into that. Yeah, that's an awesome series and its really I know inspired a lot of children to kind of dive into literature. Where they may not have otherwise, so yeah, that's awesome. And thank you for sharing that now, you know, finally, of course if our listeners would like to pick your brain any more about customer retention or increasing the average order value.

What is the best way for them to get into contact with? 

Ruth: So anywhere in any social media our handle is a tree convert app and I'm always available there me oh Eric my brother and we'd love to chat with you and share with you what we know and listen to what you are interested and what you want to share with 

Arlen: us.

We appreciate that Ruth and thank you again for joining us today on the e-commerce marketing. 

Ruth: Thanks for having me. 

Arlen: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce marketing podcast. Do you need to get more feedback and reviews from your customers and improve your customer retention? We have made it easy to do all this with our customer feedback software.

Just visit OSI and sign up for a free trial today. That's OSI If you've enjoyed this episode of the e-commerce marketing. Be sure to rate review subscribe and share it with everyone, you know.

Podcast Guest Info

Ruth Even Haim
Co-Founder of