Arlen: Welcome to the e-commerce marketing podcast. Everyone. I am your host, Arlen Robinson. And today we have a very special guest Kevin Urrutia , who is a travel and nature enthusiast. In his spare time, you can find him hiking through Mount Fuji or booking his next adventure. When he’s back in the concrete jungle he is hard at work driving ROI for brands through his paid advertising techniques or through the airwaves on his Digital Marketing Fastlane podcast.

Kevin: Hey, Arlen. Thanks for having me super excited to be here. 

Arlen: Thank you for joining me.

And I’m definitely super excited to talk to you as well because our topic of today is going to be out to focus on and actually build your top line. Sales funnel for prospecting on Facebook ads, which I know is something that you do pretty much a little bit of every day in your agency. They’re working with clients.

And, uh, you know, as people know, Facebook is basically here to stay. It’s not going anywhere. So it’s definitely a platform that at least at any e-commerce business out there needs to at least explore. But before we get into all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and specifically how you got into what you’re doing today?

Kevin: Yeah, thanks Arlen. For an introduction. I run boy media. We’re paid social media agency where we focus on paid stuff, which is Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, but also the creative part of it. But how I got into voice media was like, Arlene, I was telling you, I think last week was. Five years ago, I started cleaning company and really that’s where I kind of learned marketing.

When I say Mark, I didn’t mean paid stuff at the moment I was learning more affiliate, marketing, SEO. I was really into like, Alan, you probably know all of those, like those black cat groups about like, how do you get traffic for free, how to get traffic cheap? Right. So I was doing a lot of that stuff because at that moment I didn’t realize paid was a thing.

And at the same time, I just didn’t have money. Right. So I was like, Oh, I’m gonna start a business, but I wouldn’t drive traffic. And then I was like, paid traffic. I’m like, this is too expensive. So I started just learning about marketing in general. And that’s when I learned about email marketing, I learned about building email lists doing pop-ups at that moment, we were cleaning company we’re very local, so Google local just came out.

So then I learned how to optimize my page for Google local. And that made me get traffic from SEO. And then that led me into learning affiliate marketing. I was like, okay, great. This is a great thing. Like affiliate marketing, you can make money through promoting. So I was doing some, even before I did my e-commerce company, I was doing affiliate marketing with Amazon.

Right. Amazon has probably the biggest affiliate program in the world. So I was trying to make money from their ranking websites. They’re finding best of keywords. Right. So I was doing that. And then once I did my affiliate marketing e-commerce site, I was like, Oh wow. Like I’m noticing all these e-commerce businesses are making a lot of money from Amazon.

I was like, why? Instead of promoting somebody else’s product, why don’t I just make my own product? And then that’s kind of how I got into do my own e-commerce stuff. And that’s where I build my outdoor gear company, Brits, basically off just the learnings that I learned from building SEO, and then went to China a few times to get my talk to my factories, build my outdoor gear company.

It’s still running today. We have a few people running it and then. That led me to start my other company, which is an a luggage company. So we sell outdoor luggage, astronaut for luggage, but we still travel luggage. And then that one also was custom designed, custom made that company is called Chester travels.com.

And really throughout this sort of process of building businesses, one thing that was sort of the same was marketing depending on like services with the main company, the outdoor gear company, and then even the. Luggage company, I was still doing marketing and that led me to start voice media, which is kind of how we now help other founders and brands with paid social, because I thought it’s core.

Like, Hey, I building these businesses, I’m talking to other founders. I can come in with a different and sort of uniqueness that maybe other agencies, owners don’t have, which is actually having a company and actually going through it. And that’s kind of how I started kind of like a little bit into like what media.

Arlen: That’s quite a story. And you know, it really sounds like your whole kind of knowledge of advertising really started because of, from necessity, you know, when you were, had your own brand and you knew you needed to market the business, you knew, of course a digital media was kind of where it was at. And you kind of learned the tricks of the trade then in growing that business and then took that.

Which is, uh, was pretty awesome to be able to help other brands with your agency, voice media. So that’s good stuff and good to hear. And I’m constantly talking to people that are founders. And I always say the same story where they are telling me. There we’d for starting. The company really came at us and then necessity or what they learned to start with the company really came from a need that they have.

And usually those are always really the type of companies that really, you always see the founders have a lot of investment in because it’s something that there’s kind of near and dear to their heart. So. Glad to hear that. And you’re able to leverage that now for those listeners out there that are interested in kind of this whole process and kind of where it all starts at the beginning.

I alluded to the fact that we’re going to be focusing on building that sales funnel in the top of the sales funnel when it comes to prospecting for Facebook, but for. People that aren’t really familiar with the terminology. Why don’t you break it down for us? And just let us know. We’re really are the various stages of a whole sales funnel when it comes to digital marketing 

Kevin: with a sales funnel, it really depends.

But for us, how we break it down into kind of like four parts, which is top of the funnel, which is customers, I don’t know about you. And that’s sort of where. You’re bringing in new leads from Facebook, from Twitter, from Snapchat to really know about you and your brand. Right? So we call, we can that top of the funnel.

And then really at this point, you’re trying to do two things, either collect an email lead, or get a purchase one or the other. And then from there you have middle of the funnel. Would you call like MOF? Which is people that have been to your website that interacted with your ads, interacted with your creatives, but haven’t done that sort of action that you want them to do.

It’s either a lead or purchase, and then you have bombed the funnel. And then here, bottom of funnel is really, for more people that touch, you have spent more time with you have received an email from you. But haven’t done like ultimately the action that you want, which is maybe a purchase or booking a call with you.

Bottom of funnel for e-commerce for a lot of people that just means like add to cart through that route into cart, but then haven’t purchased so you can do retargeting there. And then the last one that we also consider to be part of the sales funnel is just loyalty campaigns, which is people that have already purchased from you.

But it’s you educating them again with different content, different videos that you have, that where they know that they made the right decision and say, Hey, great. Like. Working with Y media is a great company or find that Chester luggage is great because they’re giving me content about how to travel now.

Right? For example, that that’s sort of how we think about a sales funnel and a sales funnel is just broken down into kind of like the steps that you think your prospect needs to take. And of course, a sales funnel doesn’t need to be long or complicated. It’s just needs to make logical sense for the prospect that you’re working with 

Arlen: an explanation.

And we wrote down all of the levels of the. Of the funnel there. One of the things that kind of rings true is like you said, there’s even a, kind of another layer to that. And then that’s even after they become your customer and they’re kind of in your ecosystem, then you have the kind of the loyalty campaigns.

And it makes a lot of sense. Especially these days when people buy something, a lot of times you’ll buy something and then a day, a week later, you’re going to see ads for, or. You haven’t come across ads for the same product, maybe for a different brand. And a lot of times in the back of your mind, you know, we all do this.

Should I ran? I coulda got it from this brand. It was a little bit cheaper. Or they had this and that feature. I was like, wow. But yeah, you’re right. The loyalty part of it definitely helps because you have to reassure that customer, even though the customer they’ve already purchased from you, you have to reassure them that they’ve made a solid purchase.

That you’re an authority on whatever it is that you’re selling. And you’re here to stay. And then of course, if they want to purchase again, either the same product or other products, then. That kind of reassures them, that they made the right decision. So that’s, I think that’s a very important aspect. And I think a lot of times people forget about that.

They just, you know, so such a hurry to kind of get everybody in all the way to the bottom of the floor. And, and as a customer, they kind of run quickly to try to get the next customers, but. Not always the best thing to do. 

Kevin: Yeah. Sometimes it’s like, I think like something that we’ve learned is like, just keep the current customers happy and then they’ll be good.

Cause they can give you referrals. But at the same time, it’s like, they won’t request like a refund or anything like that. Cause they’re happy here. Right? 

Arlen: Yeah, exactly. So definitely want to want to be sure to focus on that. So now how should it e-commerce company proceed? When setting up a top of the funnel prospecting system, you know, using Facebook ads, what are some strategies for doing that?

Kevin: Like some strategies that we see working really well are driving people to like a great sales page. When, I mean a sales page for e-commerce, I don’t mean like a product page product page is kind of like their tips sort of like convert, but obviously you personally like Shopify. Like sales pages are kinda like the product to the left and on the right side, it’s a little practice scription and then like the size and by now, right, right.

That’s what typical people are doing in anything. But what we see work really well for some of the best brands are actually scaling is they’re doing sales pages. And when I say sales pages, I mean like an advertorial. That’s 1000 and 2000 words truly describing the product. And also just maybe the pain points that your product is solving.

I think with a great sales page. I mean, Arlene, you’ve probably seen anywhere, like some of these like really dark black hat niches, they have like 20, 30,000 like sales pages that work. Right. 

Arlen: So, yeah. 

Kevin: Yeah, but it’s funny because I see this all the time in like these niches, but then for e-commerce people have like two or three descriptions and then, and then they ask, Oh, why is my product selling?

I’m like, because no one knows what your product does. Right, 

Arlen: exactly. Yeah. For some reason, people are really kind of realize that. Yeah. You’re, even though it’s a store online store, you’re selling things, you have to educate people. And then also the, the bottom line is you got to provide that. The content for Google, you gotta feed the beast basically.

And you got to get the content out there so that you can answer questions when people are searching. 

Kevin: So basically that’s how I consider for top of funnel is, is really driving to the page where they’re learning about you and you’re educating them. So another way that we’ve seen work really well is driving people to sort of some sort of free lead magnet or free offer where you can collect their email address, because then you have a great sort of email follow up that you can sort of introduce them to the brand or even have better offers in your email list.

Right? Some of the best companies out there are making millions on just email lists, but that’s also because they have. Email experts and pros working that email list, making sure that they have great direct response, email copy. A lot of people sometimes don’t have great emails. They just do the basic, like Klayvio retargeting campaigns or the Clayville flows where it’s like, you know, they work, but the best companies aren’t there have someone that’s just dedicated to pumping out emails in and out every single day.

Arlen: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The thing with the emails that a lot of, a lot of companies that are creating lists, like you said, A lot of these e-commerce companies, you can go to the sign up for the list and you know, they’re not doing some type of promotion and they think, Oh yeah, that’s all you need to do is just get people into your list, give them some type of discount.

And, you know, he gets to go. But you know, those types of emails are kind of a dime. A dozen know, every business is doing that. You’ve got to provide more value to the customer or else, you know, they’re just going to glaze over that. Or that that email is just going to go straight into your trash. 

Kevin: Exactly.

It’s like every e-commerce or it’s like, Hey, new customer discount, 10%. I’m like, all right. Like that’s like basic now. Like everybody does that. 

Arlen: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. As far as these funnels are concerned, the beauty with Facebook, and I know you’re aware of it is it’s really. An awesome way to, and then, you know, depending on the niche you’re doing, and then how much, when do you want to kind of put into it?

It really is something that I’ve seen across the board where it’s a great starting point to kind of test your brand’s messaging and see how receptive people are with it. Because, you know, there’s of course a lot of other ways you can spend advertising dollars on. And so it’s just, you know, Google ads, you know, there’s a lot of other platforms you mentioned retargeting, but I think with Facebook, Because of the amount of data that they have, and then how quickly I think you can kind of get a response on what you’re putting out there.

You’ll be able to really kind of gauge the receptiveness of it. What are some recommendations that you use as far as targeting is concerned? As far as. Trying to attract the right customers because you know, Facebook of course is billions and billions of people on Facebook. And so you want to really get something targeted.

What have you done with your agencies to kind of help your customers get the right message out there? 

Kevin: Yeah, I think what you said before super important, where Facebook is a great way for you to sort of see, for example, like, let’s say you’re selling a hiking product on Facebook. You can really find hikers by just looking at the hiking interests, you know, rock climbing, anything I relate to that sort of field.

I think people can think of 10 20 keywords and then type it into Facebook insight audience. Manager, and then you’ll see like the audience groups. Right? So another thing that, and let’s say you’re having trouble finding interests or keywords related to sort of what your product does is use Google keyword planner.

It’s a free tool by Google. You can input your product URL, you could input some sort of keyword in, and then Google will tell you like, Hey, here are how people are describing your product. And then you can go to Facebook then and see if Facebook has audiences like that. So that’s another great way to get like interests.

But going back with what you’re saying, let’s say for example, you have a hiking product and you’re, you know, that the audience on Facebook is like hiker. So then Facebook has like 20 million of those, and then you’re running ads to your product and people aren’t buying that kind of shows you like, Hey, maybe you don’t have product market fit.

Maybe you need to find it from product. Maybe your sales messaging is wrong. Maybe your sales pages isn’t right. Maybe your images don’t work. So kind of what you’re saying before face is a great way to tell you that because it’s one of the only platforms where you can really target some of that. We know Facebook has all this data about you that you can say like, yes, this person does like hiking and it just practice doesn’t work.

Right. And people who founders hate saying founders hate like building something and then not knowing that. And then they don’t like people, like don’t like being told that their child’s ugly. Right. So it’s like, Hey, what was buying their stuff? Right. 

Arlen: So 

Kevin: Facebook is sort of a great sort of platform for you to test quickly.

And we’ve done that before for my own brands where we won’t even build out like a whole life. Product line or suite, we’ll just test funnels. We’ll test messaging, we’ll test products. And then you probably heard it before Arlin, where it’s like, Hey, just do like a bootstrap test where like, Hey, if someone buys, just refund them saying, Hey, look, we ran out.

But at least shows you that there’s the demand there, right? Versus sometimes founders nowadays, they’ll build this whole product line. They’ll build this beautiful website and then there’ll be like, Hey, now I’ve got to do Facebook ads. And then what happens is honestly, I see this happen all the time.

They’ll hire an agency. The agency will run ads for three months, they will get them results. And the founder of like, yeah, the agency sucks. The founder is like, I’m like, does your product work? Like, yeah, I know it works, but they’re thinking about it because I’ll all the emotional investment they put into it.

They’re not thinking. So like, Hey, is this something that people want, right. When you emotionally invested to something you hate being told that you’re wrong. 

Arlen: Yeah, exactly. I see that time and time again. It’s yeah, it’s a tough thing. And I think a lot of it is just human nature. You’re the founders are emotionally invested to their product and it’s kind of their baby, so to speak, they burst it and you don’t want anyone to see a baby’s ugly or it’s not going to work.

So it’s really understandable. Well, one other thing I wanted to, I’m curious about, because of course you can really try to, you mentioned, of course target those right customers. You can do a lot of testing, testing the messaging, and then let’s say you get to the point where after doing that some trials, maybe even before you’re selling, like you said, you could even just go on with Facebook with these ads.

And even though your product may not be ready, you can get people to buy this, you know, just refund them. Just to kind of test things out, but let’s say you kind of get to the point where you’ve done the preliminary testing, the messaging is out there and you, you kind of narrowed it down to the right audience at that point.

What are some things that you really need to do to really stand out from your competitors? Because of course, you know, your brand is not going to be the only one that is vying for this audience. How do you make your ad attractive and get people to click. 

Kevin: Yeah, I think let’s say you have a great product, you know, that people want to buy it now comes down to the creatives and really what you want to think about it there.

Yeah. Is just think about it as sort of the ad has to have like a storyline, right? So it has to be of a great hook. It has to keep your interested and then also have to sort of show you a great offer, especially when you’re thinking about it. Like top of the funnel. So hook means you have to just show something different.

You have to be very emotional in your ads, show people the problem, the hook we tell people in the first three seconds, you should be. Making people be like, what is this? Or, Oh, wow. This is exactly how I feel. Right. So for example, there’s a few companies out there that are selling like kind of like clothing, like for like bigger girls and you really, what they show is a bigger girl.

That’s prone to pull up pants, but they won’t fit her. And then the captain says like ever experienced his problem. So for someone that’s feeling that issue, they will see. Oh yeah, exactly. So it’s really about thinking, what are people emotionally thinking? And then saying, how does your product solve that?

Because that ad isn’t just for like leggings, it could be for shirts, it could be for weight loss. Right. But that emotional feeling is the same. So, and then you think, how does your product or service fix that emotional feeling that they might have? Right. 

Arlen: Gotcha. Yeah. That’s so true. The example you gave is excellent because you can just picture that larger full-figured woman is it’s probably been there where she’s tried to buy some kind of normal size flows or clothes from other brands, but yeah, no, they just struggled to get the pants on or whatever.

And so them seeing that, that hooks them right there because they’re like, wow, that’s, you know, that’s me. Or that was me today. And you know, you really, you have them there. So it’s really important to have that initial hook where you can pull people in emotionally and then. From there, you’ve kind of got their interest and then they’re going to take it the next step, which is, of course, didn’t go to the site and figure out if this is something that they’re interested in.

But at that point 

Kevin: you’ve got them. Exactly. And I think it’s like, yeah. And I tell people all the time, it’s like, think of what the emotional thing that your product triggering, because if you can get that emotional trigger, then you can sell to the many products. In that, think about that feeling of like pulling your pants and your things doesn’t fit.

That can be for pants that can be for shirts. That could be for a weight loss product that could be for a diet that could be for a meal. It’s like, that is a cord thing that people experience. So that now, you know, going back to where kind of, obviously before now, you know that if you sell a product, once now you have a backend of things that you can sell to them, because this is a thing that they experienced a lot.

So it’s also allows you to think about a suite of products that you can have for customers. 

Arlen: Exactly because that particular one message doesn’t necessarily, really can solve multiple problems. Like you said, not just some small fitting pants, but just a number of things for sure. Now, um, you know, as we get ready to wrap things up, you know, I’m always just did in kind of learning from some of these bigger successful e-commerce brands and what they’re doing.

So what are some brands that are out there that we can all check out today on Facebook? That are really doing an awesome job with regards to the top of the funnel prospecting. 

Kevin: Yeah. So some brands are doing a great job. Our, we love brands are doing kind of like free giveaways or they create custom landing pages.

So this is the brand that we work with. They’re creating custom landing pages where they’re giving you free gifts, say, Hey, like here’s a free mask. Right. A really big popper thing right now. And then on the thank you page, we have now an offer to buy a full featured clothing item on their website because is really what the free product we’re sort of getting them through the door.

And then on the thank you page, you’re giving them an upsell, which is like a full price clothing. So that’s working really well for us because it’s twofold there. Like sometimes yes, we’re just getting that initial product. But what we’re thinking about is even if 30 to 40% of people buy the upsell, we can break on the ad spent and just keep building that email list and the customer base for Q4.

Arlen: Gotcha. The free offer. There is definitely something I can see you working in. So I’ve seen a lot of that these days, especially with the masks. And a lot of companies are using that as kind of a tie-in because it’s a, it’s an item where it’s not a lot of overhead costs for them on their end, as far as expense wise, but it does kind of pull people through the door and then get them to purchase a full-price item for sure.

Kevin: And I think it’s like Arlene consumer too. Like what people think about offers is. I always tell people, like, think about what’s happening in the world right now that can relate to your prospect. I think a lot of founders like, Oh, I don’t watch TV or read the news. I’m like, well, your POS your customers are, so you need to think about what they’re watching because what they’re watching and listening influences their buying decisions.

Arlen: Yeah. That’s very true. Very true. Especially these days because there are so many different. Media channels that are out there, streaming sources and ways to consume content. You have to be on the pulse of it. And, you know, even if it’s not you, the founder of you, there’s gotta be somebody within your organization whose job it is to really just stay out there and see what’s going on in the world.

What are the, what are the latest and greatest and. Social media trends. What are people looking at? What’s going on? So yeah, it makes a lot of sense. You got to stay abreast of those things. 

Kevin: Yeah. I think people like it does like a tip, like Tik TOK is a great platform. People to just explore, you’ll see like what people are doing.

It’s like the future of things. 

Arlen: Yeah. It definitely is. Yeah. It’s really amazing how much that platform has really exploded. And, uh, yeah, I think we can kind of see where things are going with regards to media. So, yeah. There’s I already talk about, you know, it’s Tik TOK, the next Instagram, you know, it’s going to take over Instagram.

I don’t know. I think it’s a different platform. It’s really hard to say if Instagram is going to go anywhere at this point, but it’s definitely, um, grabbed a lot of market share in a short amount of time. So we’ll just have to see. 

Kevin: Yep. 

Arlen: Well, yeah. Great. Well, it’s been awesome talking to you, Kevin, as far as Facebook is concerned and building your top of line funnel for that, I’ve definitely learned a lot and I know our listeners have as well, and I always like to end the.

Podcasts with my kind of final fun fact question, just to close things out. So our audience can get to know you just a little bit better. So if you don’t mind sharing one fun fact about yourself, that our audience may be interested to know about yourself. 

Kevin: Yeah. One fun fact. I’m trying to think. I think it goes maybe what we’re talking about earlier.

Like I never went to college for marketing degree, but I run a marketing agency. So I think I tell people like, yeah, I learned through experience and I think it’s like the best way to learn anything is like I needed to do it to survive and to make money. Cause I didn’t want to go back and work for somebody else.

So, 

Arlen: yeah, that’s a fun fact. I mean, but these days though, and I tell people this all the time, there’s really only a few majors as far as college is concerned and the university’s level where. The actual material that you’re learning, you’re going to apply that day-to-day on what you’re doing. There’s not that many.

I mean, I can think of maybe some of the science fields possibly like if you’re in the physics, biology type things, you know, chemistry, that type of stuff. Yeah. You’re going to apply those concepts. Pretty immediately, if you’re going to get into those highly technical animal science fields, but well, you kind of get into a business.

You have to understand the fundamentals of course. But when it comes to marketing, yeah, it’s almost really learned trial by fire these days, especially because things are switching and in our market changes so fast, you got to just really be out there. You gotta try stuff, see what works and just kind of learn how you go.

So, yeah, that’s awesome. And I know you’ve been able to do that yourself, so thank you for sharing that. And, uh, you know, lastly, before we let you go, if any of our listeners want to get ahold of you and pick your brain anymore about Facebook, top of building a Facebook top of line prospecting strategy or any marketing strategy.

Well, what is the best way for them to get in touch with you? 

Kevin: Best way, just [email protected] You can contact us there. Now. I’ll usually respond to the emails there, but yeah, other than that, just email me. I’ll be gladly help anybody out or answer any questions you might have.

Arlen: That is awesome. Well, thank you again, Kevin, for joining us today on the e-commerce marketing podcast. 

Kevin: Thank you Arlin really appreciate your time. 

Arlen: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce marketing podcast.

Podcast Guest Info

Kevin Urrutia
Co-Founder & CEO of Voy Media