Arlen Robinson [00:01]
Welcome to the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast everyone. My name is Arlen and I am your host and today we’ve got a very special guest, Ben Billups, Founder of NOBLE Digital, boasts a decade-long career in performance marketing, emerging as a trailblazer in the field. NOBLE is the world’s fastest-growing email and SMS service provider for ecommerce brands and digital publishers. His expertise has propelled the company to redefine industry standards, leveraging a unique blend of technical proficiency and creative strategies. Welcome to the podcast, Ben.

Ben Billups [00:43]
Thanks, Arlen, happy to be here.

Arlen Robinson [00:45]
Yes, thank you for joining me. I’m really excited to talk to you today. We’re going to be diving deep into your main bread and butter, which is SMS and email marketing, which of course are great topics for today because I kind of think in my kind of view of the whole marketing world, I kind of think email marketing is bigger than it ever has been, if I’m not mistaken. There’s a lot of people that thought it wouldn’t be, yes. And so…

Ben Billups [01:11]
You’re not mistaken.

Arlen Robinson [01:15]
A lot of cool things going on with email marketing. And then of course, SMS, with of course the huge adoption of mobile devices that globally and the percentages of people that have smartphones makes SMS a huge deal as well when it comes to reaching customers prospects and connecting with them that way and engaging with them that way. So that’s also another big thing that I’m really excited to kind of get into it.

with you. But before we do get into all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and specifically how you got into what you’re doing today.

Ben Billups [01:51]
Absolutely. Yeah, so I think I mean, I’ve been a marketer for almost a decade, just like you mentioned, and the, you know, early on was really just bouncing around a bunch of different startups, you know, very kind of prototypical marketing experience being the one man marketing band, working at some scrappy company, and did that for a while. So you know, I was was kind of doing a little bit of everything was very much a marketing generalist for a long time, you know, and also just working across all kinds of different industries, you know.

Arlen Robinson [02:09]

Ben Billups [02:18]
EdTech, news publishing, and then later on getting into the e -commerce space. And then these days we support kind of a wide variety of services, including e -comm. We do lots of B2B newsletters. We still support news publishers, all kinds of different stuff. And so then, you know, just as I progressed in my career pretty naturally, just kind of looking for the next challenge and, you know, making steps forward, eventually ended up working at an eight -figure beauty brand called Bellamy.

and was doing exclusively their email, their SMS and their website CRO and was able to 5x their revenue through their email and SMS channels in about 12 months. And for me, that was just kind of like an aha moment in my career where I was like, this is something I’m good at. I really like doing it. And from there, just really started going down the rabbit hole, learning about segmentation, personalization, deliverability, you know, all these different topics that are related to email marketing. And then of course, with like a big case study with Bellamy.

um, you know, with developing my expertise there and then, uh, started to, you know, stack up a decent, uh, portfolio of clients on the side. And then eventually it made sense to kind of go out on my own. So we’ve made a really natural transition from sort of me being an in -house guy to being a freelancer. And then these days we’re an agency with a rapidly growing team. I just, we, uh, we’re bringing on two new employees this month. So, uh, things are moving pretty fast. Yeah.

Arlen Robinson [03:35]
Okay, awesome. Good stuff, good stuff. Yeah, congratulations on your growth and the success that you had. That’s good stuff. And I think it’s just kind of a testament to what I said at the beginning as far as SMS and email marketing and how I think it’s definitely bigger than ever. And it’s good to know that you guys are on the winning side of it. So that’s always good to know.

So I think, you know, what I said earlier, it’s kind of, you’re still be aware. I want to start off with, which is, um, kind of looking at the landscape. As I mentioned, I think it’s bigger than ever. Um, email marketing and SMS is also huge as well. So I wanted to see, how have you really seen, you know, how did we get to this point? If we’re looking at, let’s say the past 10 years, this past decade, um, and all of the shifts with e -commerce brands over these, this past decade.

What would you say are some key shifts along the way that marketers should be aware of that can kind of clue us into what could be coming?

Ben Billups [04:42]
Yeah, I mean, there’s really there’s so many things we could talk about in this question. And I mean, to the to your point about the fact that the space is growing, it’s like, I think it’s HubSpot put together a data set. Essentially, what it showed is for the last two decades, the growth of email marketing as a driver for business revenue has it’s been like just straight up a linear growth trajectory. Every year it goes up incrementally for two decades straight. And I think these days it’s something like

Arlen Robinson [05:05]

Ben Billups [05:09]
north of I believe 3 billion people you have an email address. So if you think about even just something in the 7 to 8 billion people in the world, you’re like, well, half of them have an email. So even if you’re comparing that to like a social media platform, like TikTok, Facebook, etc, even some of these platforms that have north of a billion users, it’s like, well, there’s actually a bigger potential audience on email. So I think tons of untapped potential there for a lot of brands in terms of more recent shifts. And we will dive more into like the privacy side of things, I’m sure later in our conversation, but.

Arlen Robinson [05:12]

Ben Billups [05:39]
recent shifts have really just come from technological advancements related to either email marketing specifically, like with the recent updates with Google and Yahoo, just trying to crack down on spam, which I believe is kind of a net positive for the space overall. But then also some really interesting developments with things like identity resolution. So as we’re kind of moving into the cookie -less future, something like a cookie that matches a contact.

on a website to a contact in an ESP, right? Those are becoming less effective, but some of these new identity resolution tools that are popping up are really powerful for e -commerce brands for identifying users that are coming to a website, identifying an email address that’s associated with them, and then allowing you to do things like trigger intent -based automations and email and SMS messaging purely based on site activity, right? So things like that. I think that the…

the kind of the sophistication of the data space and the sophistication of the email marketing space is going to continue, no doubt. And I think especially in the last like four or five years, some really interesting tools have been popping up to kind of enable brands to leverage their data in more ways.

Arlen Robinson [06:48]
Okay, yeah, yeah, I definitely see that as well. The technology has made, you know, made a lot of what you can do with email, you know, a lot easier. There’s a lot more service providers these days. And if we’re talking about e -commerce, there’s a lot more of these service providers that have specific tools for e -commerce businesses. Cause I can kind of remember if we’re looking at, you know,

10 years before and then even before that, yeah, of course there were the male chimps of the world. I think they were around. There were some other larger providers at that time, but there wasn’t so many of them that had, I guess you can say, key tools specifically for e -commerce businesses. And so now we’ve got companies like Klaviyo or Klaviyo, however you decide to pronounce them, which is their kind of niche in the market is.

e -commerce businesses. And so, you know, they have everything from, you know, customer, um, right. Abandonment sequences just already built in all those types of sequences, even for SMS that, um, as an e -commerce business, you kind of already have a set of ready -made tools for your business. And so even though of course, you know, you still going to have to do customization, create your own content. They’ve got so many things already in place. It does make your job.

I mean, as an e -commerce business or e -commerce business marketer, you know, a lot easier. So I definitely see that for sure. Um, now with of course, all of this advancement in technology, if we’re looking past, you know, the point we are right now, of course, we can’t really mention advancements in technology without mentioning AI and machine learning. Um, you know, with all of these changes happening with AI machine learning and how it’s transform transforming things.

How do you feel it’s gonna transform email and SMS strategies in the near future?

Ben Billups [08:55]
Yeah, I mean, I think that like the most obvious sort of like short -term impact I think is going to be on content. And there’s already a few players in the space that are essentially, you know, leveraging AI to generate newsletter content, to generate promotional content for e -commerce brands, for other types of brands. So I think if we’re just talking about like, what do I think is going to be the impact in let’s say three to six months, I think the biggest impact is going to be on content. But as we’re kind of zooming out and looking at the potential for

um, AI to impact the space more broadly. I think like the, really the potential is somewhat limitless. I mean, if we’re talking about real learning models that can pick up all kinds of different services, couple those with automations and integrations, it’s like, I mean, I don’t see any reason why an AI couldn’t be generating segments for you, making the content, sending the emails, recommending promotions, doing the VIP building, your automations, optimizing the automations, right? Like I think it’s really only a matter of time before.

AI is at minimum capable of doing all of those things. And then as it continues to learn and develop.

based on, like, let’s say, for example, especially brands that have bigger data sets, right? If they have a hundred thousand customers in the database and let’s say they have 250 ,000 or half a million emails in their database, you know, I’m sure that there are AI models that could be generated and probably are being generated right now to use predictive analytics, you know, maybe couple that with an external data provider. So it’s like, oh, like we’ve got an intent signal from another data provider that says this person is interested in buying a backpack right now. And then based on that data, we should be triggering.

targeted messaging to this person about our backpack, right? Things like that. I think that really the sky’s the limit in terms of the total potential impact.

Arlen Robinson [10:41]
Yeah, yeah, definitely for sure. Yeah, it’s, you know, I’m still amazed at the point we are right now with the advancement with AI with everything that you can do. And for, if I’m looking back to, you know, 10 years before this, I mean, where we’re at right now, I mean, we have so many tools. I mean, it’s like a marketer’s dream coming up with email content, subject lines, you know, different.

campaigns within just a matter of seconds. So like if you’re looking to, even if you’re coming up with your own original campaign, just to be able to have the assistance from these AI technologies to change your wording, come up with variations. Let’s say you’re looking to do A -B testing. I mean, you know, just with a few prompts, you can have a whole email marketing campaign just kind of spit back to you, which is, you know, amazing when you think about it, because these types of things didn’t exist.

a few years ago, you know, you had to really just manually do these things. You had to get an editor. You had to get somebody that was a copywriter to try to give you the best. But, yeah, so these things are really exciting. Yeah.

Ben Billups [11:47]
Yeah. Well, and like the speed of improvement is like almost incomprehensible. You know, you even think about something as simple as an AI generated video, right? Eight or nine months ago, that would be like a meme on TikTok about like, look at how ridiculous this AI generated video is. And then now with something like OpenAI Sora, it’s like, oh, this is like extremely photorealistic. Like in theory, that engine could probably produce a completely believable film, like front to back, right?

Arlen Robinson [12:10]
Yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. You’re right. That has been less than a year. So yeah, it’s gonna be interesting to see where we go from here. I mean, it’s just like, I mean, as we see, it’s like the sky is the limit now. Now you kind of touching it earlier.

Ben Billups [12:14]
And so, but like that’s literally happened in the space of, I want to say less than a year. Like it’s kind of insane.

Arlen Robinson [12:36]
with regards to when you’re sending out these campaigns and let’s say you’re personalizing this because when you’re personalizing campaigns, I think that’s when you’re gonna get the most engagement. I think most people are aware of the fact that you just can’t send out these generic emails to your full list. You’ve gotta personalize it based on maybe some segmentation that you have, the demographics of the people in your list. And so,

All that’s definitely something that has to be done. But yet at the same time, there are privacy concerns are now, we are always hearing about privacy issues. It’s more prominent than ever. With what you guys doing at Noble Digital, how do you guys navigate these kind of treacherous waters when it comes to delivering personalized campaigns, but without overstepping privacy boundaries?

Ben Billups [13:30]
I think just touching on personalization really briefly, our core philosophy where it comes to personalization is that the most powerful personalization follows intent. That’s the biggest thing. A lot of people, when they think of personalization, they think about inserting their first name in the email. That does help. There’s an incremental lift to that and to having and using that data. But that’s really what I view as the most basic version of personalization.

really powerful personalization is developing a model where you can say, okay, let’s say for example, it’s an apparel brand and they support both skews for men and women. And then let’s even say that there’s someone on the database who’s a woman, but who’s been clicking on men’s clothes categories for like, let’s say two or three emails in a row. It’s like, all right, it’s like maybe they’re buying a gift or something like along those lines, recognizing that intent and then.

Arlen Robinson [14:17]

Ben Billups [14:25]
essentially like leveraging different cross channel optimizations. It’s like you could push that to a Facebook audience and change the type of ads that they’re seeing. You could trigger email automations and product education based on those intent signals. So the way I look at personalization super broadly, it’s about collecting intent signals and then using them in really smart ways. That tends to be what drives the biggest incremental lift. Kind of making that transition to the privacy side of things really like…

Arlen Robinson [14:47]

Ben Billups [14:54]
The way I look at it is there’s a growing portfolio of states, I think at this point it’s 13 or 14 that have either passed or sort of in the process of passing a law that’s similar to CCPA, which a lot of people are familiar with CCPA. And a lot of it really comes down to pixel hygiene, essentially. So it’s like if you’re identifying a user cross device with some of these more advanced identity graphs, you want to make sure that you’re collecting cookie consent.

And you also want to make sure that you’re giving consumers the opportunity to sort of delete themselves from your database, right? That tends to be one of the big requirements of these laws is someone can go to a page and say, you know, I don’t want you collecting my data. I don’t want you feeding it to Facebook or any of those types of things. You can punch in your email address and the business essentially has an obligation to delete your record from their database and also all of the connected databases, including something like a

a lookalike audience in Facebook. So that tends to be the big MO. Personally, I think that something like GDPR making its way to the United States, at least at this current time, I view as kind of a low probability. At least based on the trend line of state laws, I believe that the United States will continue to be fundamentally an opt -out nation where…

Arlen Robinson [15:54]

Ben Billups [16:17]
You can collect data lots of ways and you could use it lots of ways as long as you’re giving consumers control to opt out. That tends to be the trend. And then obviously internationally, things tend to be more strict. So obviously Europe with GDPR, you essentially have to collect double opt -ins for almost everything. It’s much harder to collect data and to use it in Europe. And then similarly, there’s a growing portfolio of nations.

like Brazil, for example, with LGDP, it’s like essentially the same thing as GDPR. So that’s kind of my take on it is internationally things will probably become more and more strict, more similar to GDPR. And then the United States may eventually make their way to doing something similar. But at least like the trend right now is that the US will be still kind of a wild west of data and privacy. In fact, kind of the longer I’ve been in this game, the more I’ve been surprised when I bump into vendors and I’m like,

Arlen Robinson [16:49]

Arlen Robinson [17:00]

Ben Billups [17:14]
You sell that, like you can buy that, that’s legal, that’s crazy, right? And there’s these brands out there that are using that data. And broadly speaking, I mean, this gets more into kind of like the philosophical point of it, which is, you know, there’s a lot of good arguments that can be made about the idea that in a lot of ways, consumers actually prefer that experience because the experience that you get in targeting across platforms is so much more personalized.

when that data is used and shared, that it does improve their experience on those platforms. So I guess we’ll just have to see how things kind of unroll in terms of the regulatory rollouts and then also kind of the consumer sentiment around privacy. But I mean, with Gen Z and everything, I’m really not too concerned that consumers will really be banging down the doors of the congressmen to lock up the data. That doesn’t seem to be where things are going.

Arlen Robinson [18:07]
Yeah. Yeah, it really doesn’t. I think the brands, I think for brands, I think we’re kind of on the safe side of things. Um, you know, not that brands are going to be kind of carte blanche to get away with doing anything because there’s always going to be some regulation. But I think as long as, like you said, as long as people are, have the ability to opt out, whether it’s from emails or SMS campaigns, then I mean, for the most part, I think people are.

age where everybody is just super inundated with their day -to -day activities, work responsibilities, family responsibilities, just everything. The last thing they want to do is, like you said, call up a congressman and complain about their data being used in ways that they’re not happy with. I don’t really think that’s going to happen.

are. Now with the experiences that you’ve had with your brand, with the companies that you’ve been dealing with, the bottom line is with any digital marketing campaign, you really don’t know how effective it is until you’re looking at the results, the stats, the performance. So what are some key performance indicators that you guys prioritize when you’re evaluating the success of email and SMS?

Ben Billups [19:26]
Yeah, I mean, so we kind of work downstream a little bit in terms of the KPIs that we really look for. So I mean, speaking to email first, like really, we prioritize netless growth, right on any time period per week, per month, per year. That’s something that actually I see a lot of e -commerce brands kind of miss, I guess, like it’s not uncommon. Sometimes I’ve done audits of accounts before where their netless growth is actually negative, like the revenue and what they’re driving is pretty good.

But it’s kind of a ticking time bomb in the sense that it’s like, okay, well, you’re driving tons of unsubscribes and you’re not replacing them. So it’s like, there’s, you know, probably worth spending some time driving down your unsubscribes, kind of like changing your content strategy a bit. And then also looking into new ways to drive list growth so that you’re on a net positive in terms of your database. So net list growth is one. Opens these days are frankly, like a soft KPI. I’m sure a lot of folks listening to this are familiar with Apple privacy opens, MPP.

So, I mean, we have like a baseline where it’s like, you know, we want to see at least 30 % if that number is including MPPs. Not uncommon at all to see 50, 60 % on a healthy segment because you’re including those false positives. But we don’t look at opens as a real core KPI, just for that reason, because it does include false positives in most cases. So really like we’re looking at netless growth, and then we’re also looking at click through rate, which is still…

Arlen Robinson [20:31]
Mm -hmm.

Ben Billups [20:51]
for the vast majority of brands is a very reliable way to evaluate how well is our content resonating with the audience? Are they actually clicking on it? And then outside of that, if you’re an e -commerce brand, you want to look at conversion rates. And those expectations are going to vary. If you’re selling something expensive, maybe your revenue per recipient is going to be high and your conversion rate might be lower on an email send compared to, let’s say, a supplement brand that people are used to buying from every month and they’re spending $40, $50 a purchase. So.

I think those are more case by case, but those are the numbers that we tend to look at the most. It’s netless growth, click -through rate, and conversions.

Arlen Robinson [21:27]

Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, that’s definitely good to know. You know, because the bottom line is you want to understand the performance of these things, especially if you’re putting resources, marketing budgets behind them, you know, what’s what’s working and what’s not. Well, Ben, as we get ready to wrap things up, I know we talked about some emerging technologies already, such as the AI, the machine learning and how we where we are today, which is pretty incredible.

But outside of those things, are there any other emerging trends or technologies or just anything emerging that you think will shape the future of email and SMS, you know, for e -commerce brands that, you know, marketers should start prepping now to stay ahead of the curve.

Ben Billups [22:16]
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, if anyone’s heard me on a pod before, I’ll probably start sounding like a broken record, but I just really believe that almost every business should put more emphasis on collecting their own first party data. And it’s especially topical right now with sort of the TikTok ban looming, maybe by the time this airs, you know, that that will have blown over. But, you know, I think it’s just a great reminder that there’s so many businesses out there that are in the multi -millions, even tens of millions of dollars in terms of top line that are almost in

Arlen Robinson [22:28]

Ben Billups [22:46]
entirely dependent on what I consider to be rented audiences, right? If you have to go to Amazon, TikTok, Meta, Twitter, whatever platform it is, and basically rent access to audiences to drive conversions, that might be reliable for an extended period of time, but at the end of the day, you’re completely dependent on those platforms to give you those audiences. Whereas I’ve seen really incredible and compounding returns.

with brands when emphasis is placed on collecting your own first party data. And especially like, you know, given an increasing number of states and just kind of a sort of a clamping down from a privacy perspective, it’s, I mean, one way to really look at that is that if you have, let’s say, for example, it becomes more and more difficult to pass data between platforms, right? So like, if I can’t push data to Meta or TikTok, as an example, it’s even more important that you have

Arlen Robinson [23:32]
Mm -hmm.

Ben Billups [23:41]
more as much ownership of that audience as you possibly can. And it really operates as an asset within the business as you have all of these consumer profiles of prospects who at some point were interested in your product, customers who purchased, you have their LTV, how many times they purchased and different ways that you can leverage that data to drive returns for your business. And not only does it kind of give you that blanket of security with changes in policies and algorithms, but it also tends to increase the predictability of revenue for e -commerce.

Arlen Robinson [23:43]

Arlen Robinson [23:53]

Ben Billups [24:10]
brands where, you know, if you were, let’s say, for example, let’s say 80 % of your revenue at one point was coming from Metta and then you drive that down to 60%, you’re driving up the amount of revenue that you’re driving from email marketing. And then if, especially if it’s a seasonal business where it’s like, let’s say, you know, March or May or something like that, your revenue tends to fall off a cliff just because, you know, interest from these rented audiences tends to, to dive down. You can actually increase the baseline of those dips.

by having your own owned audience that you can access at any time with different offers and promotions. So I think, and at least like the, my observation of the space has really been that more and more brands are putting emphasis on that. And I’m very glad to see that.

Arlen Robinson [24:51]
Yeah, that’s good to know. And I’ve heard, I’ve had other experts on that have said the same thing as far as data and being in control of your own first party data and collecting it. And one thing you did mention that, yeah, I guess not a lot of brands really think of, but this type of information, this data really is considered an asset. It’s really an asset part of your business because it’s, yeah, data these days is really kind of like the gold.

of yesteryear. So it’s very important. And if you look at it like that, then I think you’ll really see how you should come up with specific strategies for capturing, maintaining your own first party data, and then leveraging that, of course, to make decisions when it comes to marketing and messaging and all of that. So yeah, definitely good to know. And I totally agree with…

you know, being able to keep this and manage this because we don’t know what’s going to happen with some of these social platforms. Like you said, we’re right now we’re at the, uh, of course, the end of March and there’s this, uh, ban, uh, supposedly ban of Tik Tok looming. We don’t know what’s going to happen with that. You know, this kind of happened before last year. Uh, but now they’ve got this bill that I guess, I don’t know if it’s going to go through or not or what’s going to happen. So, uh, we’ll see, we’ll see, we’ll see where it goes. And so if some of these big,

platforms, social media platforms go away, then unfortunately, if you’ve got all of your eggs in these baskets, then if they all of a sudden shut down, then you’re kind of screwed unfortunately because they have all the data and they kind of are controlling everything. So yeah, definitely have to keep that in mind.

Ben Billups [26:30]
Yeah. Well, and one anecdote I can even kind of add to that is that just as an example, I mean, I was working at Bellamy when the iOS 14 update hit, right? And what happened to a lot of brands with that is their advertising through Meta, they saw their customer acquisition costs skyrocket. They saw the effectiveness of the audiences drop, not inconsiderably, right? And at the time, they were spending quite a bit on Meta advertising.

Arlen Robinson [26:44]

Ben Billups [26:58]
And they eventually sort of slash their advertising budget by as much as two thirds, right? So they were spending a certain rate per day and then they slash that by two thirds. But we actually saw their revenue, their top line continued to go up. And that really just came from the fact that we had spent north of a year at that point, building their own audiences, finding more ways to drive revenue through those audiences. And so they were able to, I mean, at a time when most brands were seeing sort of cataclysmic declines in their.

Arlen Robinson [27:03]

Arlen Robinson [27:14]
Mm -hmm.

Ben Billups [27:27]
revenue through advertising, Bellamy was able to continue to grow at a steady pace because we basically just started using our own audiences more aggressively to make up the difference.

Arlen Robinson [27:39]
Gotcha, gotcha. Well, that’s good to know. Well, this has been an awesome conversation, Ben. We already have said multiple times, this is SMS, email marketing, it’s exciting times because it’s like I said, we’re kind of at the height of where things are going with it and how important it is now. An email is definitely not dead as people have said time and time again, that argument keeps coming up, but it’s more clear than ever that it’s not and it’s only thriving.

Ben Billups [27:58]

Arlen Robinson [28:08]
So I think this is definitely gonna go a long way with our listeners and our viewers. But lastly, before we do let you go, I always like to close things out just so our audience can get to know you a little bit better. If you don’t mind sharing one closing fun fact about yourself that you think we’d be interested to know.

Ben Billups [28:22]
Sure. I mean, I think one thing that a lot of people who know me professionally may not know is that I trained Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu. I’ve been training for probably about five years. And what’s happened during that time is in Austin specifically, it’s really become the Mecca of Jiu -Jitsu. Like a lot of the best guys in the world, they used to train at New York and then they pretty much moved the whole team to Puerto Rico. And then basically the team split is a little bit of drama in the Jiu -Jitsu world.

Arlen Robinson [28:34]
Okay, awesome.

Arlen Robinson [28:38]

Arlen Robinson [28:49]
Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. Okay, that’s awesome. Good stuff. Yeah, I’ve seen, I think it’s definitely a kind of thriving martial art now because of where I am in Florida. I’ve seen a few studios pop up, not,

Ben Billups [28:51]
and both halves of the team moved to Austin. So, I mean, I’m wearing my B team hat today. I train on the South side represent, but it’s a sport I love. So if anybody trains or you’re ever in Austin, hit me up and we’d love to train.

Arlen Robinson [29:18]
around where I am. There’s a couple of them actually, the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. So I see it’s starting to become very, very popular. So yeah, that’s a good stuff, man. Thank you for sharing that. Appreciate it. And lastly, before we do let you go, if you don’t mind sharing the best way for our listeners and viewers to get ahold of you, if they’d like to reach out to you and pick your brand anymore about SMS or email marketing.

Ben Billups [29:42]
Absolutely. I mean, if you’re interested in potentially working with us, you can go to nobledigital .co and just fill out an application form. We take on a couple brands a quarter on the e -commerce side. So we’d love to chat about that. And then if you’re just interested in learning more or reaching out to me, I’m very active on Twitter and LinkedIn. So you could just punch in Ben Billups and I should pop right up.

Arlen Robinson [30:04]
Okay, awesome. Thank you for sharing that. We’ll definitely have the link to the Noble Digital in the show notes so people can check you guys out and hit you up on LinkedIn as well if they want to reach out to you directly. All right, Ben, this has been great talking to you once again. Thank you for joining us today on the eCommerce Marketing Podcast.

Ben Billups [30:22]
Thanks, Arlene.

Podcast Guest Info

Ben Billups
Founder of NOBLE Digital