Welcome to the e-commerce marketing podcast today’s guest is a Budi Voogt. He is the co-founder of the record label heroic and his also the author of The SoundCloud Bible and just overall and awesome entrepreneur welcome to the podcast booty. How you doin feeling well. Thank you for having me Robert.
Yes, so I’m excited to have you on we’re going to be talking about sales funnels. All we get into it just give us a quick background of about yourself and just how you started heroic what you do, and what kind of projects. Are you working on right? Now. Okay absolutely, so I run heroic which is a record label and management agency with an educational wing and we have one big vision and that is to empower creators, and we operate mostly in the electronic music space so when you think about big room you think.
Of EDM these big festivals that is that is really our business and our company is an incubator for artists, so what the record label were able to discover artists on the internet usually Young starting out putting stuff on Soundcloud, and we’re able to discover these these super talented rough diamonds and bring them to the market and give them an opportunity get them some income, but at the same time see who have the potential to really shine.
And then now and then these artists get incredible traction, and that’s an indicator for us to then Upstream into the management agency where we’re so to say bringing them true to distribution chain vertically right and so they get that traction and we’re able to relief to focus from Hayward just going to put this out on the label to how can we build careers for these artists so as an example one of our biggest management audits?
Has some Hollow who went from two thousand followers to a year-and-a-half later having. LED Coachella Ultra tomorrow, and he’s now in America. He’s just an adult and a Heart Festival which are incredibly big festivals, and we’re also building a record label for him called bitburg and what we found when starting out is that this stuff is so specific right that all the literature and all the stuff online about the music industry, which is archaic in comparison to what we needed to do to succeed SoundCloud was really crucial to that.
So that led me to writing the book The Sound Lab Bible which I am now writing the firt edition of building a product like that takes a long time. You know and that sort of initiated or educational business where we do a lot of content marketing we write about this stuff. We write about music marketing we write about audio engineering my partners and amazing audio engineer meaning that he makes the music sound good on the radio on your laptop on your mobile phone on ear buds on your Beats 1.
And so forth and we share these strategies that we wish that we knew when we started out sorry go ahead. Yeah, so it’s like you’re giving back. Not only you’re giving back, but also you want to empower the upcoming artist to have the right tools from we experience things that they didn’t have as far as the landscape the landscape has changed a lot in music and a lot of this Big Lick label companies that might not be on the Forefront.
Digital marketing the way, you are so it’s really exciting that you’re doing that for this artist and you’re giving it to them so yeah, that’s that’s kind of like a good thing to do we we like to think so I think with digital meant for. That we were able to get traction without having Investments right because the way to music industry pretty much every industry works is you don’t get a big break unless you have like someone would a big reputation or a big company or Venture funding people saying hey these people are going to be awesome right and in the music industry.
It’s the same way. They once a major label publisher a big artist the support act, but we just had these super young bedroom. Producers guys who were 18 years old who downloaded? Production software, but who were making the craziest music and others that you know they played piano guitar super talented musicians and after having tried that for a while SoundCloud and digital marketing in general so working with blogs with YouTube channels was a vehicle for us to basically leverage a platform where we could growth hack without preceding money to do it and in turn we really were able to turn the tables because once we started getting.
Into plays then suddenly you have leverage because what’s better validation than showing that a million people listen to your song. Yeah, it’s just the same way as some YouTube Stars. How they have a lot of views then the big corporations come to them, then you get you get all these power and everybody wants to come to you.
Just because they see you very deep proved yourself, and you’ve established yourself and just to transition to talking about finals. Those channels you’ve mentioned the content marketing, SoundCloud, which one was the most effective for you, which which channel proved the most effective what we’ve done actually is taking the funnel methodology.
That’s so prevalent in internet marketing. Where you write content you have a social media strategy you have a Content mix right so you write different stuff on Facebook thing you do one Twitter, and you maybe have a podcast and you’ll do some SoundCloud and some YouTube basically that same methodology where you don’t go for the conversion right you have your lead magnet.
For the upgrade you get the email address you nurture the lead. There’s a soft sell. There’s a hard sell these are all mechanics that really inspired me and that we started using for the book, and we also have a course which called the music marketing Academy, which is a very high ticket product and to apply this for music We actually took that same principle.
We call it the fan funnel and we actually write about this on the website and its we look at this photo and at the top of the funnel because musicians right. They’re our biggest product is the music so of course it may be possible that they have a funny Facebook picture that gets viral traction right, but that doesn’t really align with our core with their core purpose, which is to make music so at the top of the funnel where we use internet marketers might have content marketing.
They also have content marketing but its music and their their platforms our SoundCloud Spotify YouTube where there’s all these mechanisms to acquire listeners, or lead so to say and then you pull them a layer deeper Reggie pulled them into the social mix, so you make sure you have an engaging Facebook strategy engaging Twitter strategy, maybe do some Snapchat stuff, which is more personal.
Maybe some behind-the-scenes tour footage on YouTube and then even still with the artists. We like to. Go for the mobile phone number. We like to go for the email address we like to go for as soon as someone follows on Soundcloud. We tried to get them to follow on Instagram. We try to get them to follow on YouTube so that and I’m sure you know like Seth Godin permission marketing as soon as these people give permission right that’s like your window to prove and convince them to go from potential fan to going to Fan to go into Super Fan, which means that they will buy your t-shirts go to your shows all that stuff, okay?
Mention the website where you said you cover, and you talk about a lot of Destroyer geez what’s the website suggests that listeners of the listening to disappear curious? What’s the website? They need to be looking at sure so you can go to Boody folk which is a quite first and last name together, and then together with my partner we run heroic audio, which is heroic audio com which is why we write about audio engineering so mixing and mastering and on those platforms to talk about funnels.
What we. Do is we’ve right really really in-depth articles and our focus is really does instead of going for volume or a lot of blog posts. What we do is very big articles once a month five thousand words and will only write about stuff where we are truly experts, so it’s not as if I’m going to look at someone else and invite about that.
It’s like will only do the stuff that we’re really doing and as a result of that the quality is much much better than pretty much any competitor in this pace, OK and. Sorry, so as you were talking about the finals and you gave the example where you say it, okay, so fast you you get interest once they become interest they engage either.
They give you the email the mobile or they like your social your Facebook page from there. They become a fan from a fund a super fun, and then maybe they start buying the music so I guess the fast the faster. We created a successful final is just to logically. Of the steps that you want people to go through right.
Yeah, if you apply this to the educational space because I think this may relate your listeners more who are approaches this right so create amazing articles a lot of SEO, but just make sure that the covers all the grounds and that it’s better than anything else out there like it needs to be really really good.
What we then do is instead of aggressively going after the email with a bunch of pop-ups and welcome. That’s what we do is. We just put very good content upgrades in every art. And when I say in every article. I literally mean will write article and even before we do that when we just have the article idea will know the exact lead magnet.
We’re going to add and we add that about 20% into the article about 80% into your article, and so it means that anyone who goes to the site who has the persistence and lecture material enough to read five thousand words. Which is the equivalent of ten Pages bread? They’re going to get that League magnet so if we look at the statistics on those leap magnets some days were between sixty and eighty percent on the optimum raised on our website, which is absurd right and of course not everyone makes it that far into the article, but the people that do they’re interested now that is where you get that window of ok someone, maybe a listener right, that’s the equivalent of somewhere, maybe your reader and then what we do is someone comes into our funnel.
We use auto-pilot as it. Automation tool OK and to acquire two emails we both have leave magnets in the Articles who will also have a scroll box using Sumo me that slides in when you’re about forty percent of the article and once they get into the funnel they get a welcome email, and then we introduce we actually do indoctrination so we say hey make sure to wet list are email, here’s what you can expect then a day after they get the first lesson and then actually I just reworked my whole funnel and the way it looks now is.
It’s called the artist boot camp so when you get into the funnel you’re going to get a boot camp training on marketing of copyrights on how to negotiate contracts, and you’re going to get one article every two days, so it means you get the welcome email day after you start and then one email two days one email two days one email and so forth so after 22 days someone is.
Either a really big fan or they have unsubscribed ok so your whole process takes about twenty two days, and you have about nine to 10 email. Yes, so those 22 days for the boot camp is 10 emails, and then there’s an initial indoctrination email and then throughout these 10 emails the only time I’ll even mention a product is just about on the 50 male where I’ll just casually say if you like these tips check out my book to SoundCloud Bible because.
If the content is good enough people are going to want more, and they’ll buy anyway. You don’t need to go that hard, but then after the 10 articles actually do a hard pitch. I just go like okay. Hey, you’ve got this far. You’ll probably want to have more. Here’s the book. Here’s what’s inside.
Here’s what it will solve. You should get it, and you’ll have given people so much value by Den, but they won’t mind you doing the hard, so you know yeah, and then the funnel gets more complex so for actually for the for the course we of course the music marketing Academy its. Line School 15 hours of video content and before people, and it’s a very high ticket product, so it’s at least $400.
I also know that people won’t just buy that product. They want just let go to the landing page buyer for $400 course so we give them three free videos first of about an hour and a half of free content 1 video to videos tree videos and only if they watch the tree video. Do they go into the launch sequence noga, okay?
Yeah, and just to backtrack a little bit. We’ve already covered. We’ve given a good overview and a good picture of the overall fun of but just to go back a little bit right before they enter the final of the top of the final. How do you get people? How do you drive? That traffic to your website.
What are some of the methods used to get people to come to the website come to read your content, then they decide okay? Let me let me do this upgrade and you just drive them down the path, but how do you get the? There’s two two steps to the sensor Step One is let’s say you have no audience. Let’s say you have maybe one product or service then what you’ll need to do is you’ll need to obviously make great content.
That’s well as he owed so you want to use yoast SEO plugin make sure that you index, but then you may actually want to collaborate with other people for example do guest posts go on podcast so that those are natural ways you could drive traffic back here website. That’s what I did initially but to give people some perspective on the.
The growth of my list is that first year literally took me 12 months to get thousand emails wrong yeah, second year, and I’m about three years in now right with the with the educational stuff second year, took me about 12 months to go from a thousand to seven thousand emails yeah third-year 7002 now almost 40,000 in less than eight months, so it’s it has no bald, but it’s just that fast Year yes, but.
Reason why it snowballed is this so at the starts because there was only one product right. I just had the book and my funnel wasn’t optimized at the start of was just a Blog a trip with like five emails and a book and as a result the customer lifetime value was relatively low whereas now I’m able to offer leads a whole journey, so they can come in they can get the book.
There’s tree price points then they go deeper than there’s the course there’s a one-off price, but also. Payment plan so then it becomes recurring Revenue, so I know that the customer lifetime value of a lead right what’s the value of an email just from years gone up as I improve the funnel and the products and at the start what this is allowed me to do is because I know hey and email is worth to me six seven eight dollars.
It means that if I can acquire an email for less than that money for example using Facebook ads Instagram ads Google search advertising then that means that I’m have a profit margin right and at the start. I wasn’t able to do that both because I didn’t understand how pave paid advertising worked, but also because I didn’t have a funnel that was complex enough with good enough products actually create that value out of the lead right so I did a lot of get guest posting back, then I did a lot of growth hacking getting back in from people that kind of stuff, and then now I’m actually really the focus that we have is just post one amazing article a month.
We have a little network of people in the industry that backlink and put its okay like if I look at the traffic. The sixty percent this organic, but the rest is all paid then we just have unbalanced for landing pages, and we just acquire tons of traffic Facebook and Instagram advertising with retargeting campaigns at the back to push people through the funnel OK, and what if some mistakes that you’ve experienced or like what are some failures you had with your finals and from those failures.
You realize I made this mistakes and you learn from them, and you’ve. Over the years. You’ve had experience not to make those mistakes again, or should people be watching out for so number one is always build a list the second you started website. Have a product whatever build an email list. I think another thing that was really crucial for me.
Is that it was I was very late with tidying up my funnel. I think that if you set up a funnel properly you can actually be launching all the time so for example. Let’s say you are settling. Let’s say something. I’m just looking in the room. Let’s say let’s say you’re selling a sunglasses your sunglass company you’re doing online retail people may be looking for sunglasses you may offer a voucher by getting their email address they come into the funnel you may talk about like why shades are cool give them some fashion tips and then at some point once that happens you want to give them an urgency a discount Especial bone.
Exclusive access thing Etc and so that means that once that funnel is in place then people are going to constantly be buying your stuff now because we work on a product basis Less on the e-commerce retail basis we work with launches a lot, so I make sure I launched a book once a year. We make sure we launched a Course once here, so that creates to launch Windows and those launch Windows are really moments when we go very hard on selling and there’s a spike in the revenue for us.
I think one of the things I failed to realize is. That you can launch pretty often. You could probably launched four times a year and as long as you provide enough value to your audience. They will actually be ok with you doing that and they’re going to be much more OK than you realize and of course there’s going to be some people that say Hey you can’t do that, but you have lutely should.
I think another thing is I was very late with using retargeting and and paid advertising especially on Facebook and Instagram is very powerful because it’s very targeted like our ads are as targeted as 20 to 22 year olds that like Fruity Loops that have a Facebook page that are in this region and that have engaged with these pages right like we go that specific or for example in the course funnel someone may have watched the second video, but not deferred and will actually.
At them with a video at that says hey you like the second video you should go watch the 3rd right once you figure out the numbers your conversion rates average order value then paid advertising can be so so powerful because if you know hey I could buy emails for tree dollars and often email and make $5 the really all you need is cash flow and then you could scale that up and the benefit on the back.
End is you get more emails on your list and the more emails you have under. List the more success you’re going to have when you launch because you’re going to have more people there to actually generate revenue from so it’s like this perpetuating Circle went to advertising builds your audience and audience creates true launches more cash flow which in turn drives the advertising okay.
I have two questions skirt the first question. Between Google and Facebook, which one has been successful for you as far as the advertising because it sounds like with Facebook. You can really Target, and you can really Define your audience absolutely Facebook 100% think also the Facebook advertising product is becoming quite competitive, but because it’s so targeted you actually compete less within your specific niches, right?
So so Google is the go-to for online advertising so everyone’s there and now Facebook is becoming that but if you’re in a very specific, Niche like we are right then there’s not that much competition, and I feel like within this space. We’re probably one of the biggest advertisers in the world and that means that comparatively to like people with sunglass companies.
We may be very small advertisers, but in this Mitch we may dominate the Mitch. Yeah, I think there’s also value in that by the way the side notes in that you actually build a lot of Brands rep. Patient I have people walking up to me in the city you were like hey. I keep seeing you on my Facebook feed your Decca.
I and that’s just because the targeting is a specific. I think the other thing is Instagram is obviously Facebook Company by now. It is a little bit less competitive than Facebook ads, so we’re seeing a lot of results simply because it means someone may visit my sights on their desktop, and then he may go on the mobile phone.
And the login is linked their instant of mobile and their Facebook mobile they’re linked so they may get hit with the retargeting on mobile will stirring the bus because they checked out the website at work. You know what I mean yeah, and I think that’s very very powerful it does depend on the product though because long till search on Google is very powerful.
Noga, OK, and how did you get into all of this? How did you get in why music and you know you usually don’t see an artist tied in with digital marketing or entrepreneurship. I mean, they usually focused on their art and pushing other things, but what’s what’s your personal story? How did you get into this?
Well there are two sides in this okay, so more than anything. I think I was lucky and I was opportunist I. It just started going to University here Rotterdam in the Netherlands for business application because I knew what some point I wanted to run my own business. I just had no idea what so I was going to the Chamber of Commerce who had these workshops, and I was going are trying to figure out and it tasting seeing seeing what was what?
And my best friends and we were 19 in fact that right my best friend’s downloaded Fruity Loops, which is music production software and it made a record Put It Up on Soundcloud had no followers and it got like 10,000 plays and I remember I was still living at my mother’s place. We’re sitting there were looking at this in this guy is this is absurd we should do something with this yeah, and so they began act I began managing them and that really snowballed and so it was really opportunism.
It wasn’t even that I was that insanely. Think about music in general, but it has grown on me as a passion that I care about deeply in and that is not perceived because because truthfully I love music I listen to pretty much to music pretty much every hour on the way, but the honest answer is probably that I just really enjoy working with creative people because I’m just going to tilt my laptop.
I hope that doesn’t disturb the audio, but like okay, so we have our little office here. We have another space and usually this is just filled with amazing. People my partner at my company is my best friend from for my childhood and far business more than it being really enjoyable is also an opportunity for us to work together with the people that we really care about and I could be doing a web shop or doing a traineeship at a Fortune 500 or whatever.
But we had this amazing opportunity where we’re able to work with arts and do what we want and Pioneer digitally, and that’s just I’m very humbled with that opportunity. I think okay. Yeah, I mean it becomes off. That’s really River the question came up is because we were talking about funnels, but as I watch you talk and respond to this different answers.
It just showed that you really passionate and into it, and yeah, how let’s say people want it. Meet you what’s the best way to treat? You best way would be to go to booty Volcom know my contact page, then you could reach out to Jason or Community manager, and we could help you out with whatever then also were available on socials obviously at booty both Twitter and the heroic recordings com is the website.
But if you’re into music you may want to go straight to the SoundCloud of course for your listening pleasure OK, and what’s one thing a business should do right now to increase the traffic and increase their selves. I would probably go to your whole site to SEO audit with your stasio, and then I just make sure you make the best the best content.
There is just make really the very best content in your Niche. Don’t try to do everything. Just do one thing very well better to have one amazing article every month the. 20 crop ones and through the same thing with your products because if the if what you’re delivering is truly exceptional everything else will flow from there people will talk about it people will share it whereas if you’re making an average product.
You could push all you want, but it’s going to be really really difficult in today’s saturated Internet space okay. I really appreciate giving that feedback coming on the show how it’s just you have a lot of things that you can share and probably I’d love to have you on in. Rita just because you already have everything down your Dino about digital marketing and everything so I really appreciate you coming on and sharing all your tips and your hacks.
Thank you. There are super welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to the e-commerce marketing partner. Join the e-commerce marketing podcast Facebook group to learn connect collaborate and grow with other e-commerce marketers at e-commerce marketing podcast for FP e-commerce marketing podcast for FB subscribe to us on iTunes by searching for e-commerce marketing podcast and please leave a rating and review.
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