Welcome to the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast everyone. I am your host, Arlen Robinson. And today we have a very special guest, Naira Perez, who has been marketing for almost 20 years and has been able to work with several industries and Fortune 500 brands. She got her start in direct response advertising, building brands on TV before digital was even a thing.
Naira founded SpringHill Digital in 2016 specializing in the development and implementation of digital marketing strategies like paid media, integrated campaign design and identifying audience patterns.
Naira loves the excitement of optimizing in real-time and exploring the amount of possibilities that exist in raw data, taking pride in the fact that companies don’t need huge budgets to make their digital marketing more effective.
Welcome to the podcast, Naira.
Thank you for having me. I’m really excited to be here.
Yes, no problem. And thank you for joining. I am super excited to talk to you today because you definitely have a wealth of knowledge under your belt. You’ve been in kind of the industry for pretty much as long as I’ve been going with our business. Here is isolate software. We can definitely trade trade war stories. I’m sure from all that, we’ve seen as technology and marketing and advertising has truly evolved over the years. But today we’re going to be focusing on advertising the goals for advertising, because a lot of times I think businesses, especially ecommerce businesses, when they’re thinking about advertising, they kind of treat it more as just kind of a task, and they jump right into things without laying out clear goals and having a plan for it.
And so we’re gonna be talking a little bit about creating more of a plan and a framework for your digital advertising. But before we get into all of that, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your background and specifically how you got into what you’re doing today?
Yeah, actually, it’s been one thing after another. It was not a plan to get into advertising. But my first real job was in performance based marketing, which was like, oh, look at our pricing model. And how can we price it better so that we sell more or what are the relationships? And then I go into data, part of marketing. And then from there I went and as you mentioned, I started in in commercials. And commercials are very interesting because they had tracking before there was tracking in the Internet.
What they use is a different 800 number for each station that you called same ad, different 800 number. And that’s how we could see which station you were calling, which ads were you seeing. And so we could put all of that together. So for me, made a lot of sense to have data and develop your strategies moving forward based on the data. So from there then Facebook ads, all of that started to grow. And I make the jump from TV advertising spending $40 million in one year to digital advertising, which at the time it was not as big.
And then one thing led to another. I worked for agencies, and I decided to start Springhill digital because smaller businesses, multi medium businesses were getting bad advice because the budgets are small, they couldn’t afford big agencies or when they could afford big agencies. It was like an afterthought because it were small. So I decided to start Springfield Digital to really help those people get quality advice in quality marketing strategies and help them grow. And then, you know, we build things together, which is really my passion is helping small businesses get established where they can grow.
Right. Right. Well, that’s awesome. And thank you for sharing that. And I think you’re totally right about how small businesses, you know, oftentimes, especially when technology changes, because it is always changing a lot of times. Small businesses can sometimes be left behind because they don’t have the large budgets behind them. They don’t have the resources. And it’s a lot difficult to transition from kind of one way of doing things to the next. And so it’s awesome that you’ve kind of taken on the task to help the smaller businesses to kind of Wade through the changing times and everything that’s going on.
And we’ve now been thrusted into really this kind of whole digital environment now because of the shutdowns and all of that. So a lot more businesses nowadays are focusing so much more on their digital presence and what they can do digitally. Now, that really brings me to my first question when we’re talking about advertising and specifically in the digital realm, there’s a lot to consider when you’re doing it. Where do you see is the really the initial goal when you’re looking to advertise, what should be the objective?
Well, it depends on how mature is the brand and what does the brand want out of the marketplace, which a lot of businesses go into advertising, knowing what they want. We all want sales. That’s why you went into business. That’s why you don’t do what you do for free, because you want sale stuff. So I get it. But think bigger. Are we bringing new people into our audience? Are we reactivating our audience? What are we doing apart from sales, which is always a call. What else? So there is a primary goal, and then there is secondary goals.
And sometimes those are even more important because you need to establish a good strategy for the long term. So as an example, when we have start ups, it’s very common that they come to us without any presence online. It’s like Tania product. What do we do? So if you want to grow fast, that audience that you can start learning from, then you advertise to get a community of very targeted individual, meaning whenever you grow organic, you don’t pay for it. You may get a lot of followers, but you do not know those followers like you because of the product like you, because of the color of your brand.
You do not know. So it is always good to have followers that, you know could be your potential customers. So paid advertising for those brands that are just starting creates a community of people that are interested in your product, in your service, in your brand for the right reason. That is one step and another step will be okay now that we have the community, what do we do? Do we re engage with them? Have we not had a relationship in the past? Should we now start actually talking to them and activating them?
And so that’s another goal that we can have in the brand in all of these well done are baby steps to that final goal of achieving sales, to getting sales. So those are all baby set. And then there is the goal, obviously, of getting ROI positive return on investment positive, which is getting sales. But if I do not have my foundation of my target audience, correct, then getting to those cells is going to be way more difficult.
Right. Right. That is so true. And I’m glad you broke it down like that, because a lot of times businesses, they don’t think about that. They think with the advertising, they’re shooting straight for the head, so to speak, they’re trying to get the kill immediately by trying to engage customers to purchase their products. But I think now more than ever, those bottom steps are more crucial than ever. Now, where you have to create audience and connect with people that are going to be interested in what it is that you’re doing, where you’re going to engage with them, you’re going to create a community, you’re going to educate them.
You’re going to come off as somewhat of an authority on that particular subject before you engage, because I think these days people really want to know they want to connect with brands more than ever now. And I think more than ever people have really kind of want to see what’s behind the the proverbial curtain to speak. They want to know. Okay. What is this owner about? What are the executive staff? What are some of the things that they’re that they are a support? Are they socially conscious?
Are they environmentally conscious? That type of thing? I think a lot of times now, more than ever, people want to know what those things are, you know, before they decide to pull out their wallet and, you know, enter their credit card information. So yeah, definitely very crucial. You can’t blow past that these days. Not at all.
No, you do not. And pay media helps you break through that noise. But otherwise, if you don’t have pay me, if you rely only on content and organic and going viral, you may never get there. Because what? Facebook Instagram all social platforms. They are a pay to play. You’re reach and organic. The more you grow, the less people you reach. Maybe you reach, if you’re lucky of your organic and even to reach your own followers, sometimes you have to pay for it.
So it is the difference between organic and paid is with paid. We can really target the people that we want and tell them what would interest them. So that is a very distinct Iran. Paid and organic organic go anywhere. You don’t know where it goes. But I is very targeted for people that don’t have big budgets. It’s actually a very good idea to invest in paid.
Yeah, definitely. Speaking of ads and paid ads versus organic traffic and that type of thing, what for a brand that’s fairly new to this that doesn’t want to waste money, which is very important. Is there a particular checklist or a framework that they should follow now in order to get the most out of their ads? Because that’s the main thing. I think a lot of businesses are scared of as far as when they’re creating these ad campaigns, they don’t want to burn money need to speak because they don’t have it.
And what should they be doing?
No, that’s a fantastic question, actually. And we have a checklist in our website. If anybody once said just so that you can think about all the things that you have to consider to make an ad because the platforms make it look like it’s very simple to make an ad, but it’s all very simple to click the wrong button and just as a whole bunch of money on the drain. So I would say the items to look at whenever thinking about your advertising first is audience. And who are you talking to?
And it cannot be women 18 plus in the United States.
That’s right. Right. That’s way too bright, way too bright.
So you need to make it smaller and just make that persona make that person that you’re talking to. Well, she is a working mom with two kids that need these S and S, and it’s interested in these DS and TS. Why would you go through that exercise? You go through that exercise because then you take that information and you go in into the platforms and say, okay, I have this information. So I’m gonna target people that like yoga. I’m targeting people that have cars, so you actually can do that in the platform.
So take advantage of it and reduce from 200 million people where 100 million are not gonna care about your product. You actually go down to the most effective group, which is the people I will be interested that match that person. So the audience is the first step. The second is what does that audience want? What is the content that is going to make them interested in your ad? You have about one to 2 seconds to get the attention of somebody in the newsfeed. So use it wisely because they will move along.
So in that sense, what can you say in, like, one to 2 seconds that is going to get those people interested. What’s the offer that you’re going to make them? What’s the problem solution you’re going to talk about? So you have to know that person again, that Jane person. And okay, this is my friend and I want to engage with her. What would I say first? So that she talks to me. That’s the content. And I think you had a guest in one of your previous podcast.
I talked a lot about content and it was really good guest. So the content is important. And then what is the CDA? The call to action. So great. They’re the right person. They stopped to talk to you. Now, what do you want them to do? And this is a very overlooked thing that people do in advertising, especially small businesses. One thing people are really good at is doing what you tell them to do. Actually, I learned these in infomercials. We used to have infomercials for 28 minutes and we will have the call numbers three times up with the guy saying Call now.
But during the entire ad, the phone number was there. You could call at any time. Only those three times. That the guy say, Call now these people call. So that’s really what it is. People will do what you tell them to do because you’re the expert. You’re the one that brought the conversation. So tell me what to do next.
So do I order? Do I learn more? Do I download a paper? Tell me. And then another part that is overlooked is the landing page. Where do people go after the ad? Matters matters a lot. You made a promise you talk about something in your ad. Then when you get to the landing page, if that doesn’t connect, if it’s not the same, then people get confused. Right? So think about your landing page and make it cohesive with your ad strategy. And that’s really the secret. I get a lot of questions, like, what’s the perfect landing page?
And it’s like the perfect landing page is the one that maintains the customer journey from your ad all the way to becoming a lead. So it’s just one journey. And it makes sense with if they were going to find you somewhere else on the Internet, which is very common, then they will find the same information. So have a cohesive message and offer. And those are the basically breaking them down. The things that you have to think about audience content, call to action landing page.
Great. I love that synopsis. It’s a great breakdown, and that’s very critical. Specifically the landing page, because I think that often overlook. I deal with a lot of small businesses, ecommerce businesses, and one of the things that I know when people jump into paid ads. But Google ads is a lot of times. Like you said, the ad messaging does have to gel with where you’re sending people. So there definitely has to be cohesiveness there. But I think a lot of times businesses are in a hurry, so just try to drive traffic on sales.
I’m like, oh, okay. I’m gonna create this ad. Let me just drive everyone in my home page. Home page is good. It covers everything or they think it does. But it doesn’t really the messaging doesn’t match. And that’s where I think they lose a lot of potential customers because you’re promising them something. But like you said, if that promise is not fulfilled, once they get to your site, then they’re gonna have bad feelings and I get them with that. All right. I’m digging a hit the back button and then look for the next result in the list.
That’s exactly. Often a great steps to follow. We all know that a lot of times. Unfortunately, no one likes to make mistakes, but I think where you make mistakes is where you learn the most. And so what do you see as some common mistakes made with advertising that we can learn from?
Yeah, absolutely. So one big mistake is understanding the difference as an example of lifetime budget versus day budget. So whenever you make an ad, the platform will ask you. And this is common in almost every platform. You have a choice between doing budget per day. Let’s say $10 per day or doing a lifetime budget, which is like $300 a month, which turns out to be the same. Right? 300 a month, $10 a day. So what you need to understand is that whenever you’re choosing a daily budget, the platforms will spend that budget, whether your results match what you want or not.
You told the platform to spend $10, they will spend $10. Maybe you get one click, maybe you get ten. The platform is not going to calculate whether it was affordable for you or not. It just you totally to spend $10 whenever you do. Lifetime budget, though, or in platforms, is also called paste budget or constant budget or something like that. Then the algorithms tend to distribute it and tend to balance your performance a little bit better because it has a month to reach those $300. Maybe one day you spend $5, but maybe the next one you spend 15 according to the results that you’re getting.
Unless there is a specific reason to spend $10 a month, I mean a day. Unless there is a specific reason, I will always consider a better approach to do it over extended period of time. We work with platforms like Instacart. If there is a product that it’s in supermarket, I encourage you to actually look into Instacart ads, and they do have spend approach of you could say, oh, they spend it as much as possible, as fast as possible or through a period of time. Whenever you make it go fast at the very beginning, you cannot optimize.
You are going to find a little bit. So whenever you go blind and you cannot optimize because it’s spend at all, then you’re left with nothing. You could strike out and be great and have great results, or you could not. And those are also very common mistakes. Allowing the platform to spend your budget as fast as possible. That’s never a good option because you cannot learn what work and actually do it again. You cannot learn what didn’t and then avoid that in the future.
Okay. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone put it that way. And what you’re talking about is with the daily budget versus the lifetime budgets. Is that applicable with platforms like Google ads, Facebook marketing and advertising and some of the other social platforms?
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, Facebook and Instagram are the perfect example where they will try to achieve what you tell them to optimize for. And the lifetime budget always works better in that sense. Otherwise they will spend the daily budget.
Very interesting. I was going to say so with the lifetime budget, one thing that you could recommend would be when you say lifetime a monthly budget would be a good example of a lifetime, but it could be a longer period of time, but something monthly, whether it’s let’s say, $500 a $1,000 per month. You’re giving the platform more trying to really understand your ad and optimize it for that full period of time rather than it makes sense rather than having it, you know, burn through that daily budget and then cause, like you said, these ad five phones, all they’re trying to do is spend your money.
That’s the bottom line. That’s what their algorithms are set for, which, you know, of course, who can blame them? That’s what they’re there for. But they do want customers to be satisfied because they want people to come back.
It’s not good.
So I see what you’re saying with the daily budget. It’s going to just try to burn through it, and then that’s kind of it. It’s going to try to do it the fastest way possible.
Yeah. And I think the fact that it’s called lifetime budget confuses people, but your lifestyle means lifetime of the campaign. So you can actually have a campaign and say, okay, from February 1 to February 28. And then that’s the lifetime of that campaign. However, once it gets to February 28, if the campaign deep great. And you’re like, I want to continue, then you can actually increase that lifetime and say, okay, let me set the end date to the end of the summer, and then I increase the budget because you already spent that budget.
Right. So if you’re increasing the lifetime, then you have to increase the budget so you can play with that. But, yeah, don’t let the turns kind of get confusing because, yeah, it’s lifetime. It’s not the lifetime forever. You can modify it and you determine what is the lifetime. One month, it could be a week. It could be a year. You have control over that and you can modify it. You can actually make it shorter. You can make it longer with the daytime, whatever you just say during the day, spend $10.
The only thing you can change is the amount that you spend per day.
Not transfer it to a lifetime. Okay. That’s always also a problem. But optimization is better on a longer period.
Gotcha gotcha very good to know a great piece of advice now. Yeah. As we get ready to wrap things up, are there any businesses that you’ve dealt with or that people may be familiar with that have really successful advertising campaigns that we can learn from. And there are some specific things that you can point out with their campaigns that you’re familiar with.
There is many businesses that are doing really well. What I’m going to tell you, it’s not their names, but I’m going to tell you that you can see if somebody is doing well by going to their ads. Facebook is really transparent. If a brand is advertising, so you go to their page. Transparency, it will tell you, yes, this brand is running ads, and you can go in and see how many ads they’re running. And the key is that if an ad has been running for a long time, let’s say more than a month, then it’s probably doing very well because no brand will maintain in it that it’s losing money.
So everybody in their own industry has a competitor. I would encourage you to go and look at your competitors page and actually look at their advertising. And if it’s not a competitor directly, it could be a product that people are using instead of your product anything. And then you can go or an aspirational product. Maybe I have a small cosmetic company and I want to look at Laurel, go to their page and see what they’re doing and will actually, Facebook will tell you whether it’s an Instagram ad or a Facebook ad, and if it’s in certain groups, it will even tell you to spend like, there are certain special categories that they will disclose to spend.
So there’s a lot of information that you can get just from the platforms. Linkedin has also something. If you actually have services, professional services, you can do that as well in mind. And I will tell you it will show you your competitive. So I think that’s the best way to find out what’s working.
Okay. Great. Yeah. That’s an awesome advice. And I am familiar with that as well within Facebook, where you can see brands, all of their ads, you know, kind of a whole history and lifetime, and it makes total sense. Like you said, a brand is not going to maintain an ad if it’s not successful. You know, they may try certain things, and a lot of brands do that. But if it’s something that they’re have been ongoing, an ad that’s ongoing. Obviously, it’s doing something for them. So yeah, definitely learn from that and see how you could apply maybe what they’re doing to what you’re doing and just see how to get started from examining your competitors.
Not sure. Well, no, it’s been awesome having you on the podcast. I have definitely learned a lot. You’ve definitely dropped a lot of Golden Nuggets for our audience, some great actionable items that, you know, I’ve definitely took some notes myself that I’m gonna relay back to our team because there’s a lot of things we’re doing, a lot of different things on our end. As far as digital advertising, this process is definitely right on time for us, and I hope it was for everyone else as well.
But what I always like to do is to switch gears here with my final question, just so our audience needed to know you a little bit better if you don’t mind sharing one clothing, fun fact about yourself that you think our audience would be interested to know.
Yeah. I actually didn’t study marketing in College. I studied logistics.
So which explains a lot of why I like optimizing and finding effective ways of doing things, but it’s a little bit of a nightmare, because everywhere I go, I try to think about and talk about what could be done better. So you never run a restaurant. How do you know? I’m like, I don’t know, but just the right thing, right.
So everything is possible.
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I can definitely see how that could work, too. Help benefit what you’re doing today. You know, as far as logistics are concerned, you’re always looking to see how to put things together more optimally and make things more efficient. And with advertising, you gotta do that all day, you know, because like we said at the beginning, if you don’t, you’re gonna be wasting a lot of money, and that background has definitely helped you out in that respect. Well, great. Well, thank you for sharing that.
I appreciate that. And, you know, lastly, before we let you go, if you don’t mind letting us know on our audience how they can connect with you if they want to pick your brain anymore about advertising or anything under the kind of digital marketing umbrella.
Yeah, absolutely. You can go to our website. It’s bringing all digital. Com, Springhill digital. Com and over there, as I mentioned, we have a campaign checklist that your audience can download for free, and it has everything that you need to think about before starting our campaign. But also, you can always send us an email through there. You can find things in Facebook and LinkedIn as well, but the website can direct you anywhere you need to go.
Okay. Great. Well, thank you for sharing that definitely recommend our audience to check you guys out at your website, and we’ll have a link in our show notes as well. And thank you, Nara, for joining us today on the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast.
Thank you. It was a pleasure. It was a lot of fun.
All right. Great.
Thank you for listening to the Ecommerce Marketing Podcast.
Founder of SpringHill Digital